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Changing county boundary lines is no small thing and pretty rare.
Sometimes, municipalities need to think outside the box and this is a case where that happened. It was a good idea; it was the right thing for all concerned.
As far as infrastructure - of course - that would be the challenge with incorporating Ballantyne. But all those things can be worked out. Other communities have figured it out . . . it is not like it is an impossible situation.
De-annexing is quite a different thing than incorporating. Huntersville may be closer to downtown than Ballantyne but legally that bears no significance. Huntersville was incorporated over 100 years ago when Charlotte's urbanized zone extended no further North than 36th street. Ballantyne was systematically developed and annexed as part of the city of Charlotte as the extension of plans dating as far back as the 1960s. The city sunk millions in road, sewer and utility expenses expanding into that area. Will this new town absorb that debt?
North Carolina's annexation laws favor cities - and for good reason. Allowing neighborhoods to take their balls an go home just causes bad regional planning and eventually higher taxes because of the administrative costs of service duplication.
The Meck Neck issue doesn't really compare. That was an isolated area of the county that should have been ceded to Iredell for simple logistical reasons.
De-annexing is quite a different thing than incorporating. Huntersville may be closer to downtown than Ballantyne but legally that bears no significance. Huntersville was incorporated over 100 years ago when Charlotte's urbanized zone extended no further North than 36th street. Ballantyne was systematically developed and annexed as part of the city of Charlotte as the extension of plans dating as far back as the 1960s. The city sunk millions in road, sewer and utility expenses expanding into that area. Will this new town absorb that debt?
North Carolina's annexation laws favor cities - and for good reason. Allowing neighborhoods to take their balls an go home just causes bad regional planning and eventually higher taxes because of the administrative costs of service duplication.
The Meck Neck issue doesn't really compare. That was an isolated area of the county that should have been ceded to Iredell for simple logistical reasons.
Absolutely agree with everything you have pointed out.
I was simply using Huntersville as an example of a small town that grew large as a bedroom community of Charlotte, in a relatively short period of time - and which is actually closer to downtown Charlotte than is Ballantyne. Ballantyne has grown tremendously in a few short years and probably should have been established as a town in its own right from day one, but developers were looking to the city to underwrite public work costs, I would assume . . . again, I am ignorant about the history of that part of the county.
You are totally right about the complications with infrastructure that would be involved with incorporating Ballantyne. It is probably not financially feasible, as yes, there would be many legal and logistical hurdles to overcome, starting with infrastructure (sewer, water, and other municipal services). But I don't know that . . . none of us do at this point.
However, it isn't impossible. I am just playing devil's advocate. As you probably know, I don't live in Ballantyne.
It seems so many think it is an impossible and even ridiculous idea. I happen to think it is an interesting idea and can see why residents of Ballantyne might be interested in the discussion, as well.
And to answer your question about debt. Well, I don't have access to the county budget (on a line item basis). Nor am I knowledgeable about the history of debt that has been incurred in developing the Ballantyne area. But I would assume, since part of those expenses are county expenses . . . part (or all) of the infrastructure may have been paid for by county tax dollars . . . how that translates into fiscal responsibility for a newly incorporated town, I have no idea. However, those basic issues would doubtless be addressed as part of the due diligence that would take place as a charter was being written . . . and I would assume as part of the proposal for incorporation, financing of public works would be integral to the planning process.
An incorporated town can choose how to raise revenue, I would think. I am certainly no expert, lol. I just know that once you get a bond rating, you can look at financing. There are companies out there who do this . . . so I know it could be done.
Last edited by brokensky; 01-01-2012 at 07:00 AM..
let me ask you ani, since you seem intent on pushing the point here.
what advantage would Ballantyne gain from being outside the City of Charlotte, and why should Ballantyne be treated any differently than any other wealthier than average area? Should we let anyone who gets signatures pull out from the city? What if Dilworth wants to deannex? What is Eastover wants to deannex? What if Myers Park wants to deannex?
Can you even tell me why BJ proposes this "solution"?...
Should we let anyone who gets signatures pull out from the city?
Why not, other than one would hate to lose that tax base? After all, that's all that really drives annexing areas by a city anyway.
To say it's "Un-American" is to ignore history. Suburbs that leave cities do it for a number of reasons, but often because they no longer believe the city represents their interests - a notion not that far removed from 1776.
To tell an area that they can not incorporate and become their own town is tantamount to the city saying, "You can't leave because we need your tax money!" Any other reason is equally self-serving by the city.
Nonetheless, Bill James can not be wholly serious in his "suggestion." The uptown crowd would only turn loose their grasp on the wealthier parts of the city when those parts were pulled from their cold, dead hands.
Let us entertain him, however, for a moment. Imagine if you will all of the real estate taxes in Ballantyne staying there to support only Ballantyne, rather than being moved to all parts of the city. Imagine if - for example - Ballantyne also chose to run it's own school system instead of having the tax base support inner city schools. A recent report, for example, showed that inner city schools in CLT spend the most per student. Where is the WORST per student expenditure? You guessed it - in a part of the city paying the largest amounts of property taxes.
The benefits are clearly obvious. Aside from that, Ballantyne would likely grow without the "perceived" burdens of the "uptown crowd." People who choose North Union County would perhaps even move closer to CLT in a incorporated Ballantyne.
Why not, other than one would hate to lose that tax base? After all, that's all that really drives annexing areas by a city anyway.
To say it's "Un-American" is to ignore history. Suburbs that leave cities do it for a number of reasons, but often because they no longer believe the city represents their interests - a notion not that far removed from 1776.
To tell an area that they can not incorporate and become their own town is tantamount to the city saying, "You can't leave because we need your tax money!" Any other reason is equally self-serving by the city.
Nonetheless, Bill James can not be wholly serious in his "suggestion." The uptown crowd would only turn loose their grasp on the wealthier parts of the city when those parts were pulled from their cold, dead hands.
Let us entertain him, however, for a moment. Imagine if you will all of the real estate taxes in Ballantyne staying there to support only Ballantyne, rather than being moved to all parts of the city. Imagine if - for example - Ballantyne also chose to run it's own school system instead of having the tax base support inner city schools. A recent report, for example, showed that inner city schools in CLT spend the most per student. Where is the WORST per student expenditure? You guessed it - in a part of the city paying the largest amounts of property taxes.
The benefits are clearly obvious. Aside from that, Ballantyne would likely grow without the "perceived" burdens of the "uptown crowd." People who choose North Union County would perhaps even move closer to CLT in a incorporated Ballantyne.
It is all about the (tax) money.
again, you (like most other "devil's advocates" in this thread) are ignoring some basic facts... like the fact that MECKLENBURG COUNTY RUNS THE SCHOOLS, not CHARLOTTE!!! Your argument would have some merit if we were discussing seceding from Mecklenburg County, but I have some reservations that BJ, a County Commissioner, would ever suggest that.
Plus, Ballantyne didn't just form in a bubble. It formed because of Charlotte, and the uptown partners, and the planning and investment of the City... which includes "all parts of the city". During conversations like this I have a hard time remembering who is supposed to be the "entitlement" crowd, lol.
again, you (like most other "devil's advocates" in this thread) are ignoring some basic facts... like the fact that MECKLENBURG COUNTY RUNS THE SCHOOLS, not CHARLOTTE!!! Your argument would have some merit if we were discussing seceding from Mecklenburg County, but I have some reservations that BJ, a County Commissioner, would ever suggest that.
Plus, Ballantyne didn't just form in a bubble. It formed because of Charlotte, and the uptown partners, and the planning and investment of the City... which includes "all parts of the city". During conversations like this I have a hard time remembering who is supposed to be the "entitlement" crowd, lol.
I haven't forgotten that MECK runs the schools. Why does that seem like such an astounding or game=changing fact to you? One of the main reasons for incorporating would be to form a town school district, apart from MECK. Let the reform begin. Meck schools are a fricking mess. Why don't we restructure the whole school system while we are incorporating Ballantyne, lol.
let me ask you ani, since you seem intent on pushing the point here.
what advantage would Ballantyne gain from being outside the City of Charlotte, and why should Ballantyne be treated any differently than any other wealthier than average area? Should we let anyone who gets signatures pull out from the city? What if Dilworth wants to deannex? What is Eastover wants to deannex? What if Myers Park wants to deannex?
Can you even tell me why BJ proposes this "solution"?...
Ballantyne is rapidly becoming self-sufficient. We even refer to the area as "Ballantyne" even tho there really is no such entity.
you mean, now that Charlotte has built this lovely community and signed up for debt obligations on bonds that the city will be paying back for decades to come that were used to develop and fund infrastructure for the area a neighborhood or two is "self-sufficient"...? Based on what? Do you have figures? How do you know? You just "trust" BJ?
What you're telling me is, you have no explanation or facts, but you're willing to sign up anyway... lol, you sound like most people who vote for BJ!
I haven't forgotten that MECK runs the schools. Why does that seem like such an astounding or game=changing fact to you? One of the main reasons for incorporating would be to form a town school district, apart from MECK. Let the reform begin. Meck schools are a fricking mess. Why don't we restructure the whole school system while we are incorporating Ballantyne, lol.
yeah, cause Huntersville, Cornelius and Davidson have had a lot of success fighting the school board... LOL, not even close.
It's not an astounding fact TO ME. what IS astounding is that people whine and gripe about Charlotte, then list a bunch of MECKLENBURG COUNTY PROBLEMS while having no real gripe about Charlotte other than (evidently) that there are some poor areas that don't pay as much! Well slap me on the hiney and call me a newborn, but I thought every city had those...
you mean, now that Charlotte has built this lovely community and signed up for debt obligations on bonds that the city will be paying back for decades to come that were used to develop and fund infrastructure for the area a neighborhood or two is "self-sufficient"...? Based on what? Do you have figures? How do you know? You just "trust" BJ?
What you're telling me is, you have no explanation or facts, but you're willing to sign up anyway... lol, you sound like most people who vote for BJ!
You are getting very carried away with your own rhetoric, Native_Son.
I am gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are not purposely distorting what I have written on this thread.
I am sure you would agree that as far as retail, restaurants, residential, etc. that Ballantyne has all the conveniences necessary to form a town. I was not speaking of the financial obligations - I have addressed that in an earlier post.
And as far as the city's investment . . . I don't know what the extent of the investments have been or if they would even be considered exclusively "Ballantyne" investments. For example, roads connect areas throughout the county . . . how many were built with county funds as opposed to state or federal? I don't know the answer to these questions and seriously doubt if you do, either. I seriously doubt our state representatives in the General Assembly would have all those answers, either, without doing a lot of research. And I feel sure the same goes for the county level . . .
When you talk about bonds . . . those are paid back. That doesn't mean an incorporated Ballantyne couldn't assume their part of whatever responsibility would be theirs, if that were the reasonable and expected thing to do.
I can say this . . . I would like to see how much tax revenue is put into the coffer from the area that would be incorporated. I would daresay that folks living in the "Ballantyne area" - as well as retail establishments and businesses in general - have certainly paid a hefty portion of the taxes disbursed in our county budget. Of course, I am speculating and until I saw those figures, that is all I can do.
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