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So, kids brought by their parents at age 3 or 4, who have grown up in America, attended American schools, etc., are lawbreakers? It's a lot more complex than you want to make it.
Last time I checked, 3 & 4 year olds do not attend college. Minors of this age are not usually subject to the laws as they are the responsibility for the adults that bring them here.
Now, in regards to this subject, if the kid is still here when they are 16, 17, 18, etc, and smart enough to enter college, then they are smart enough to know the law as well. They are breaking the law. Whether the law is just or not isn't the question as people can always, as I suggested above, change the laws. They don't because there isn't enough support for giving illegals the rights of a citizen.
I believe out-of-state paying students pay the full cost of their education. Not sure about UNC, but that's how it is at other state universities.
They pay federal taxes no matter what state they live in and colleges and universities enjoy vast benefits from the US taxpayer. These resources are not unlimited however and the entire world can't come here to go to our schools.
There are legal avenues for some of the world to come here and study and I have no issue with this. What we are talking about are people who have illegally jumped in line by sidestepping the legal process. I certainly don't support taxpayer paid for employees that enable such people to take seats in our colleges and universities.
They pay federal taxes no matter what state they live in and colleges and universities enjoy vast benefits from the US taxpayer. These resources are not unlimited however and the entire world can't come here to go to our schools.
There are legal avenues for some of the world to come here and study and I have no issue with this. What we are talking about are people who have illegally jumped in line by sidestepping the legal process. I certainly don't support taxpayer paid for employees that enable such people to take seats in our colleges and universities.
Every single illegal alien in the United States can return to their country and apply to enter the USA via any number of the hundreds of ways of doing so. They can apply for a work visa, green card, ask for asylum, etc. etc. etc. Go look at the list on the .gov website. There is even a path for people to gain full citizenship simply by joining the Army and helping to defend this country. I can assume these methods are never considered simply because it's easier to break the laws, jump the line and take what isn't earned or deserved from those who do.
And I wonder why there are people whose hearts are bleeding for the kind people who will do this.
I'm not sure why you quoted me with a web link to read. Either you have one or you don't. A weblink is not a substitute for making whatever point you have. None the less, I suppose you missed the part of your link where it flatly states to "Know the State Law" regarding illegals and to keep up to date. 4 states have already banned illegals from attending public universities including South Carolina which affects schools right in this metro area. Such a law is being considered in NC.
The reason being given is that it takes seats away from legal students and colleges and universities can't keep building classrooms from illegals. i.e. It costs the taxpayers money.
Last time I checked, 3 & 4 year olds do not attend college. Minors of this age are not usually subject to the laws as they are the responsibility for the adults that bring them here.
Now, in regards to this subject, if the kid is still here when they are 16, 17, 18, etc, and smart enough to enter college, then they are smart enough to know the law as well. They are breaking the law. Whether the law is just or not isn't the question as people can always, as I suggested above, change the laws. They don't because there isn't enough support for giving illegals the rights of a citizen.
So you are seriously saying that some 16 or 17 year old who has been here his entire life is supposed to go repatriate himself to Mexico and potentially leave everything behind? When his illegal act was entering the country as a young child? That seems pretty heartless.
I know everyone will quote the law, but do you realize what we are all saying? A kid, who is here through no fault of their own is trying to make the best out of a crappy situation and better themselves. And a teacher who is trying to help this kid is being vilified, and told she should be fired or actually put in jail even thought as far as I can tell she has done nothing illegal.
The immigration issue is complicated, no matter how many people say "illegal=illegal, end of story." Yes, it is illegal to be in this country without documentations, but we have essentially decriminalized it with our policies. And the reason we don't have a huge wall or door by door searches to deport people is because it is not in our country's economic interest to do so. Free flow of people goes with free flow of money and ideas. To deny that undocumented workers do not add significantly to this economy is to not be aware of the situation. If magically all undocumented workers vanished, do you really think the economy would improve? Ask the farmers in Arizona who have crops rotting because there is no one to pick them...
People break laws all the time. They drive too fast, they smoke pot, they declare a charitable contribution that is not completely honest, they illegally download MP3's. Yet we do not vilify these people because the crimes are innocuous seeming. Yet someone who comes to this country, plans to work, usually does find work and contributes to the economy (which they do regardless of what people say), and underutilize public services because of fear must be done away with at all costs is ridiculous. These workers come in when there is work, and don't come in when there isn't (which is why immigration was way down when the recession hit). The fact that we don't have a policy that allows these people to come and go freely is why so many stay.
As far as college admissions go, it is definitely not a zero sum game. There are empty spots at many, many colleges. Most colleges recruit because numbers are down. No, not everyone can get into Harvard, but I am pretty comfortable in saying that every qualified kid can get into college. Now, if someone wants to pay for Jose Ramos's education with his money, more power to him. But he isn't preventing anyone else from going to college because he is enrolling at Johnson C. Smith.
My rant aside, it comes back to this: an innocent kid wants to make himself better and a teacher is helping him do it. The comments about this are overwhelmingly negative. What does that say about us as a country? Heartless. Sad.
Last edited by Niceguy17; 06-12-2012 at 01:22 PM..
I'm not sure why you quoted me with a web link to read. Either you have one or you don't. A weblink is not a substitute for making whatever point you have. None the less, I suppose you missed the part of your link where it flatly states to "Know the State Law" regarding illegals and to keep up to date. 4 states have already banned illegals from attending public universities including South Carolina which affects schools right in this metro area. Such a law is being considered in NC.
The reason being given is that it takes seats away from legal students and colleges and universities can't keep building classrooms from illegals. i.e. It costs the taxpayers money.
Most states charge non citizens full out of state tuition and make them ineligible for federal aid. If a private citizen wants to fund them, that is their business.
And I doubt there is anyone who got rejected from Johnson C. Smith due to lack of space..
I'm not sure why you quoted me with a web link to read.
LOL. It was a public service. Thought it would make you more knowlegible and smarter. Like dressing up for dinner in a nice restaurant. Get it?.... helping you look like you know what yer talking about.
But he isn't preventing anyone else from going to college because he is enrolling at Johnson C. Smith.
My rant aside, it comes back to this: an innocent kid wants to make himself better and a teacher is helping him do it. The comments about this are overwhelmingly negative. What does that say about us as a country? Heartless. Sad.
On the first point I disagree. He is definitely taking a spot and more importantly a scholarship that could go to someone who is in this country on a legal basis.
On the second point, he is 18 years old, he knows he is an illegal alien, he should take the responsibility for his situation instead of dumping it back onto society to handle. Sure his parents put him in a bad situation but it isn't the responsibility of the rest of us to put aside our laws, society, and standards to accept it. Life isn't fair for any of us and there is a time when, as an adult, you either accept the deck of cards you have been dealt, or not. I see no point in supporting lawbreakers for their entire lifetime.
If he wants to attend school in the USA, he can return to his home country and apply for a student visa, just like the many others who do follow the rules. It can't be simpler than that. There is nothing heartless about that. As for the assertion that the USA is Heartless, I would be willing to bet that you won't find a country that is as willing to take in foreigners as long as they respect our laws. I don't understand why you would imply otherwise.
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