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The patterns of development are very different. This is the point of the thread. Atlanta, GA's metro is considered a poster child for sprawl, disconnected and automobile dependent development. It may be changing but you can't even get people to vote to pay for road improvements in the Atlanta metro. Charlotte area residents voted by over 70% - twice - to levy a tax on themselves to pay for mass transit. This is a place Atlanta, Georgians enjoy looking down their noses at?
...Georgia's county-cities are among the biggest, land area, municipalities in the country.
In the top 40, 4 are in Georgia; only one is in NC.
How do you think MARTA was even created?Dekalb ,Clayton and Fulton voted a 1% tax.In 1970!This is getting silly.You want credit because you voted for something 40 years late?For a system less efficient than what MARTA is?Not to mention.The first streetcar in Atlanta will begin running next year.Its being built as we speak.
Georgia may have one one large megacity but more people in the world and can say they have heard of Atlanta and Savannah or know more about them than ANY city in NC.
Not to mention with a $272 billion GDP for Atlanta.
Charlotte-$113 Billion
Research Triangle-$57 Billion
Don"t know Winston-Salems GDP ?
I can bet that All five of Charlotte large cities still cannot equal to the GDP and clout of Atlanta's metro.Call it sprawl if you want(it is).
You guys keep talking about what even distribution of cities because on paper you see one big sprawling area.(Which it is)However in reality its many different municipalities with there own identity and lifestyles.
Roswell,Stone Mountain,Rome,Decatur,Woodstock,Norcross,Marietta, Kennesaw,Vinings etc... are communities.Not just sprwal. They were there BEFORE Atlanta was even around in many cases.They are places with there own identies not even associated with Atlanta just as Raleigh,is different Charlotte.Durham is different than Raleigh.
Sprawl is an argument that some of you one to clobber over Atlanta as if Charlotte is doing something SOO special.Yet none of you has shown how CHARLOTTE is growing any differently than Atlanta.
I mean the growth has been more in its several counties just like Atlanta.
It's challenging to quantify, or even qualify, an argument about patterns of development using these aerials. However, seeing that Charlotte is concentrated in one county vs. sprawling out over many is the point of the thread?
Yea but that is only because the difference in city size. When Atlanta was the size of Charlotte (now) its foot print was very similar in size and shape.
Once you focus on what the growth is like on the ground it is similar, just different in size.
Here is an ARC policy map of Atlanta used to describe the area. I want to point out just one thing on it. Take note of the boundary of the "tan" area.
Those are what the ARC identified as "maturing neighborhoods" in their initial life cycle. This was created to make policy guidelines and examining the unique problems and assetts of different areas.
Roughly speaking, the tan line shows where the urban growth extended to prior to 1970. The Atlanta MSA had a bit over 2 million at that point.
What came next was where 3 more million people moved. The land had already been taken up by the "maturing neighborhoods," so there were two options... infill development on -limited- space and outward growth of suburban single, family home neighborhoods. Both happened.
What I can't help but to notice, when I look at aerial mapping of Charlotte... if I were to draw that UA line myself. I can't help but to notice it is about the same size of Atlanta's ARC maturing neighborhoods. It includes some older cities about to meet and be engulfed into the larger cities growth, it includes the first major areas growing outside the beltway, as well as a few still inside yet to be developed. The next steps are either infill growth on limited spaces and development of new single family homes going outward. I see that happening in Charlotte now. There are new neighborhoods on the edge of that growth line continually being built.
I also want to take note of one thing... Atlanta back then was primarily concentrated in 2 counties. However, the Dekalb County border is only 2 miles from Downtown Atlanta's core. If we had a large county centered on Downtown, it would have been one. (btw, there is actually an interesting historical story for why the county border is so close to downtown... if you're every interested)
Lets keep the comparisons to the issues at hand and not make it A vs B so much.
Charlotte is a nice city and actually had a pretty good economy for a city its size. It is the whole reason it is growing, very similar to how Atlanta has in the past.
They are also moving forward on initiatives, like Transit to promote future urban growth... just like we did.
I also don't see a reason to put them down, because their system is smaller and less efficient. They are just getting it off the ground and that is a good thing.
and to be honest... I just don't want any tangential arguments
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1
How do you think MARTA was even created?Dekalb ,Clayton and Fulton voted a 1% tax.In 1970!This is getting silly.You want credit because you voted for something 40 years late?For a system less efficient than what MARTA is?Not to mention.The first streetcar in Atlanta will begin running next year.Its being built as we speak.
Georgia may have one one large megacity but more people in the world and can say they have heard of Atlanta and Savannah or know more about them than ANY city in NC.
Not to mention with a $272 billion GDP for Atlanta.
Charlotte-$113 Billion
Research Triangle-$57 Billion
Don"t know Winston-Salems GDP ?
I can bet that All five of Charlotte large cities still cannot equal to the GDP and clout of Atlanta's metro.Call it sprawl if you want(it is).
You guys keep talking about what even distribution of cities because on paper you see one big sprawling area.(Which it is)However in reality its many different municipalities with there own identity and lifestyles.
Roswell,Stone Mountain,Rome,Decatur,Woodstock,Norcross,Marietta, Kennesaw,Vinings etc... are communities.Not just sprwal. They were there BEFORE Atlanta was even around in many cases.They are places with there own identies not even associated with Atlanta just as Raleigh,is different Charlotte.Durham is different than Raleigh.
Sprawl is an argument that some of you one to clobber over Atlanta as if Charlotte is doing something SOO special.Yet none of you has shown how CHARLOTTE is growing any differently than Atlanta.
I mean the growth has been more in its several counties just like Atlanta.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,702,154 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1
So more is better?Sounds like bureaucratic nightmare.
What is your problem? I passed no judgement. I asked a simple question. You didn't know what I was talking about & someone else answered my question. A 3rd party asked another simple question & I answered that. I passed no judgement, just answered a simple question. You explain that snide remark. My question is related to the topic of the thread, which is about traffic, not city size, not metro size, traffic.
Your article is from 2006.Before Atlantic Station was finished.Before Glenwwod Park,Before the Beltline,and during the middle of the decade that Atlanta was experiencing its largest population increase since the 1960's.Growth principle were in motion as I stated earlier.
Those statement have not bee true for some tome now.There is growth management all over the MSA.They had to.The Atlanta Regional Commison is VERY active in combating sprawl.
The Regional Commission? Big deal. The have no authority to make laws or enforce develoment standards. They have no more power over jurisdictions than the regional councils of government in North Carolina.
Here's a newer article about bad things are in Atlanta, GA
What is your problem? I passed no judgement. I asked a simple question. You didn't know what I was talking about & someone else answered my question. A 3rd party asked another simple question & I answered that. I passed no judgement, just answered a simple question. You explain that snide remark. My question is related to the topic of the thread, which is about traffic, not city size, not metro size, traffic.
I passed no judgement either.I just said it sounds like a problem.More agencies equal more red tape.You don't get that?
The Regional Commission? Big deal. The have no authority to make laws or enforce develoment standards. They have no more power over jurisdictions than the regional councils of government in North Carolina.
Here's a newer article about bad things are in Atlanta, GA
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,702,154 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1
I passed no judgement either.I just said it sounds like a problem.More agencies equal more red tape.You don't get that?
This is what you posted.
Originally Posted by afonega1
So more is better?Sounds like bureaucratic nightmare.
Find where I said that more is better. It was a snide remark & I think that you were trying to start something.
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