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It came up because it IS a popular option among the physicians, professors and higher ranking administrators at UofC. The travel times via the Stevenson and LSD are quite manageable, the schools are TOP NOTCH, and range of housing options is actually quite similar in price to those in Hyde Park/ Kenwood, commute times to the Loop via Metra are outstanding, for folks who have lab affiliations at Argonne (which includes a very broad range of energy fields including alternatives to fossil fuels, biological interests and advanced imagining) the combined commute options are outstanding.
There is a history between Flossmoor and UofC but over time that history has weakened. Express trains between the two are actually rare these days, which reflects the ridership realities: Metra Electric (ME) Schedule
No one in their right mind would call Hinsdale, portions of which are INSIDE COOK CO, would call it a "far western suburb".
(speaking of non-sequitors Aurora is much farther west, I often defend it, especially against those that do not understand that its far west side is quite nice, as is the eastern most portion served by D204, as distinct from the run down portions served by East Aurora High, but in any case I would recommend anyone working at UofC commuting much further than about Woodridge or Lemont unless they spent no significant amount of time in Hyde Park...)
It came up because it IS a popular option among the physicians, professors and higher ranking administrators at UofC. The travel times via the Stevenson and LSD are quite manageable, the schools are TOP NOTCH, and range of housing options is actually quite similar in price to those in Hyde Park/ Kenwood, commute times to the Loop via Metra are outstanding, for folks who have lab affiliations at Argonne (which includes a very broad range of energy fields including alternatives to fossil fuels, biological interests and advanced imagining) the combined commute options are outstanding.
There is a history between Flossmoor and UofC but over time that history has weakened. Express trains between the two are actually rare these days, which reflects the ridership realities: Metra Electric (ME) Schedule
No one in their right mind would call Hinsdale, portions of which are INSIDE COOK CO, would call it a "far western suburb".
(speaking of non-sequitors Aurora is much farther west, I often defend it, especially against those that do not understand that its far west side is quite nice, as is the eastern most portion served by D204, as distinct from the run down portions served by East Aurora High, but in any case I would recommend anyone working at UofC commuting much further than about Woodridge or Lemont unless they spent no significant amount of time in Hyde Park...)
Chet, to say that Hyde Park's housing market is similar to Hinsdale's housing market is completely delusional. Hinsdale is among the top 30 or so wealthiest, whitest and the most exclusive communities in the united states. Hyde park is one of the few racially diverse south side communities and the housing market in hyde park certainly reflects it's demographics and location. Hinsdale is in the west suburbs near the corporate headquarters of McDonalds and many other corportions. The typical house/condo in Hinsdale is worth $814,704. The typical house/condo in hyde park is worth $276,165. The Typical house/condo in flossmoor is worth $263,069. There are several trains that you can take to hyde park from flossmoor during the rush hour that take exactly 30 minutes. Hinsdale is not located anywhere near train service to hyde park.
And the fact just is many University of Chicago professionals currently do live in flossmoor and homewood. Just like any other institution I am sure U of C Professionals live just about everywhere. I am sure Hyde park is probably number one. Second maybe downtown or the south loop. But I live out here and can tell you a lot of U of C professionals live in Homewood and Flossmoor. H-F Science Pub Reveals Fishy Tale of Sex in the Swamp - Homewood-Flossmoor, IL Patch.
Last edited by allen2323; 02-23-2012 at 10:45 AM..
The OP posted this in the SUBURBS section of the Chicago forum. I agree with you that the largest percentage of UofC employees do live in Hyde Park / Kenwood. I noted that in my original post to this thread. I also listed a variety of suburbs that are in fact popular among those with families having school age children. I am not denying that there has been a historic association with Flossmoor. I am going to STAND FIRM in saying that association has WEAKENED over the decades PRECISELY becuase of what the OP mentioned in their post: THEIR SPOUSE WILL LIKELY BE WORKING IN THE LOOP. It is a whole LOT easier to get to Hyde Park AND THE LOOP for a two income family via a town on the BNSF than ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE REGION. I CANNOT APOLOGIZE FOR THIS FACT AND I AM SORRY IF YOU HAVE SOME CHIP ON YOUR SHOULDER BECUASE OF IT. MAYBE YOU SHOULD GET APPOINTED TO THE RTA BOARD AND DO SOMETHING TO MAKE IT DIFFERENT BUT THAT WILL REALLY HURT THE ECONOMIC VITALITY OF THE LOOP AND IF THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT THEN GO FOR IT!
The facts of what AVERAGE real estate prices truly are is STRONGLY influenced by the NUMBER of vartious kinds of housing that change hands. Hyde Park has a large number of very compact condos that change hands pretty frequently. They are not desired by two income families with school age children. There a small number of such units in places like Hinsdale and LaGrange too. There they make a TINY percentage of sales. The other factor that influences AVERAGE sales prices is the VERY expensive homes on the extreme high end that DO exist and sell remarkably well in places like Hinsdale. Taking these factors in consideration the FACT is that housing that is desired by most two income families with school age children anywhere in the region is remarkably similar in MANY towns. Lots of the suburns that I mentioned in my original post (like LaGrange) are a FAR better value than Hyde Park for similar size houses. Hinsdale is NOT exactly known as someplace where you get a lot for your housing dollar but itr beats Kenwood...
The OP posted this in the SUBURBS section of the Chicago forum. I agree with you that the largest percentage of UofC employees do live in Hyde Park / Kenwood. I noted that in my original post to this thread. I also listed a variety of suburbs that are in fact popular among those with families having school age children. I am not denying that there has been a historic association with Flossmoor. I am going to STAND FIRM in saying that association has WEAKENED over the decades PRECISELY becuase of what the OP mentioned in their post: THEIR SPOUSE WILL LIKELY BE WORKING IN THE LOOP. It is a whole LOT easier to get to Hyde Park AND THE LOOP for a two income family via a town on the BNSF than ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE REGION. I CANNOT APOLOGIZE FOR THIS FACT AND I AM SORRY IF YOU HAVE SOME CHIP ON YOUR SHOULDER BECUASE OF IT. MAYBE YOU SHOULD GET APPOINTED TO THE RTA BOARD AND DO SOMETHING TO MAKE IT DIFFERENT BUT THAT WILL REALLY HURT THE ECONOMIC VITALITY OF THE LOOP AND IF THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT THEN GO FOR IT!
The facts of what AVERAGE real estate prices truly are is STRONGLY influenced by the NUMBER of vartious kinds of housing that change hands. Hyde Park has a large number of very compact condos that change hands pretty frequently. They are not desired by two income families with school age children. There a small number of such units in places like Hinsdale and LaGrange too. There they make a TINY percentage of sales. The other factor that influences AVERAGE sales prices is the VERY expensive homes on the extreme high end that DO exist and sell remarkably well in places like Hinsdale. Taking these factors in consideration the FACT is that housing that is desired by most two income families with school age children anywhere in the region is remarkably similar in MANY towns. Lots of the suburns that I mentioned in my original post (like LaGrange) are a FAR better value than Hyde Park for similar size houses. Hinsdale is NOT exactly known as someplace where you get a lot for your housing dollar but itr beats Kenwood...
I am not talking about that. There are relatively few single family homes in hyde park. But hyde park is a very popular area with families and this is evident in the late afternoon in hyde park when you see a lot of kids walking around. For the most part Hyde Parkers with kids live in larger renovated condos or townhomes. I would say a great budget for a 4 bedroom, 2-3 bath, 2000sqft+ condo or townhouse in the heart of hyde park would be anywhere between 200k to 400K. Of course you can spend much more than that on a luxury property.The same can be said out in flossmoor. But realistically for a property large enough for a family with kids in hinsdale that is say over 2000sqft and at least 3 bedrooms, 2 baths. You are looking at spending a minimum of 400k to 800k. When I say Hyde Park is nothing like hinsdale I am talking about median incomes, median housing cost, location, the racial diversity of the residents.
I am sure some things are similar between hinsdale and hyde park, but not many. Such as residents being mostly college educated. Hyde Park is definitely a south side community and really does look the part. Comparing Hyde Park to Hinsdale draws no comparison in my mind. When I think of an area of chicago with a similar demographic to hinsdale, I think of the gold coast. Wealthy and mostly white. Not Hyde Park. Sure you can get a one bedroom condo on the gold coast for 250k, but nothing big enough for a family that is also anywhere near being reasonably affordable. There is occasionally a sale of a exclusive luxury property in hyde park for over a million dollars. But for the most part the norm is within the typical range of a middle class to upper middle class southside community. Whether it be beverly, jackson park highlands, pill hill, Kenwood, or much further out in the south suburbs like flossmoor, homewood, olympia fields, or matteson.
Last edited by allen2323; 02-23-2012 at 05:46 PM..
I am not denying that there has been a historic association with Flossmoor. I am going to STAND FIRM in saying that association has WEAKENED over the decades PRECISELY becuase of what the OP mentioned in their post: THEIR SPOUSE WILL LIKELY BE WORKING IN THE LOOP. It is a whole LOT easier to get to Hyde Park AND THE LOOP for a two income family via a town on the BNSF than ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE REGION. I CANNOT APOLOGIZE FOR THIS FACT AND I AM SORRY IF YOU HAVE SOME CHIP ON YOUR SHOULDER BECUASE OF IT. MAYBE YOU SHOULD GET APPOINTED TO THE RTA BOARD AND DO SOMETHING TO MAKE IT DIFFERENT BUT THAT WILL REALLY HURT THE ECONOMIC VITALITY OF THE LOOP AND IF THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT THEN GO FOR IT!
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I have no idea what you are talking about. Has downtown chicago moved locations too? The last time I road the metra electric downtown it let me off right in the heart of downtown chicago. Right on Randolph and Michigan Ave. The 60601 zip code which is the center of downtown chicago. I guess it does depend on where downtown you work. Whether Millennium Station, Union Station, or Ogilvie train station is the most convenient. I am sure that a lot of regular metra electric riders have the exact opposite viewpoint as yourself on how convenient it is. After all downtown chicago is a big area.
Last edited by allen2323; 02-23-2012 at 06:23 PM..
Apparently if your husband works downtown, you should reconsider moving to the western suburbs instead... as if the Metra Electric line isn't perfectly convenient for that.
I'm normally just a lurker, but I'll chime in since I started working at the U of C in December and my wife and kids are still living in Champaign while we sell our house and figure out where to live in the Chicago area.
I am currently staying with my grandparents in Oak Park during the week. So I can talk a little about the commute to a western suburb to and from Hyde Park. I commute from there most of the week, but I also come via I-57 north Monday morning from Champaign and take I-57 south on Friday afternoon. The morning commute from Oak Park is fine. It takes about 30 minutes at around 7:30 in the morning to get to Hyde Park. I take the Eisenhower to the Dan Ryan and usually get on Lake Shore Drive. It is possible to of course take the Dan Ryan to Garfield if there is a backup on LSD (and there was this morning). Coming home in the evening at say 5-6 PM, I can usually count on 40-50 minutes. I always take Lake Shore Drive home to the Stevenson, to the Dan Ryan, to the Eisenhower. If you have flexible hours that would be helpful to try and avoid some of the traffic, but it can be heavy past 6 PM even. I've only occasionally driven on the Stevenson for the morning or afternoon commute, just to get an idea of what driving on it would be like. The stevenson is not great. The traffic sign when you merge on to the Stevenson usually says about 25 minutes to Harlem avenue and maybe 40 minutes to the tri-state tollway. I believe you can estimate about 40 minutes on average to get from Hyde Park to Harlem Avenue via the Stevenson.
What this boils down to is Oak Park, Riverside, Brookfield, and La Grange are possibilities if you can put up with that type of commute. To me Oak Park would probably be the best, but it can of course be expensive to buy a house in a desirable area (ie not within a couple of blocks of austin boulevard). You also have the possibility of riding the Green Line all the way to 63rd. It can be useful in case of inclement weather. My grandparents live closer to the blue line, so I usually take that and transfer downtown. It takes about 1 hour and 20 minutes. It's not an enjoyable trip. Taking the Green Line only should only take around 50 minutes. It is still a bit of a walk from the station to the university and the area around the station maybe isn't the greatest, so I wouldn't suggest it as a normal option.
Of those areas I mentioned, we're taking the closest look at Riverside because it seems to have more affordable houses and seems to have good schools. I'm still worried about the commute, but I do have flexible hours, so I could probably make it work. Personally, I don't think I could handle a commute much farther than from Riverside coming from the west. I think I would prefer driving on the Eisenhower to the Stevenson as well.
The other option we are definitely looking at is Flossmoor. It seems to really be the only option for commuting by public transit. It should take about 25-30 minutes by train during the rush hour. I only drive that way on Monday morning around 9:15 and Friday afternoon around 4. At 9 there is usually not any heavy traffic. Since I'm not actually going to or from Flossmoor, I don't know the exact time, but I figure it to be similar to my current commute from Oak Park. I would say it takes about 30 minutes from the Lincoln Highway exit to get to Hyde Park. Friday afternoon will of course take longer 40-50 minutes.
Another factor is you can buy a lot more house in Flossmoor than you can the western suburbs. There are some impressive houses in the Flossmoor Estates, Flossmoor Park, and Old Flossmoor areas. Flossmoor is indeed a very nice looking area. There are some concerns about whether or not the quality of schools has declined and the changing demographics, but you can surely read about those in some of the other threads on this forum. You can also check out the [url=http://iirc.niu.edu]Illinois Interactive Report Card[/url] for more information on the schools. Flossmoor is probably our top choice at this point, though.
My wife did take a look at Homewood as well, but she didn't like how the schools are set up. The Homewood schools only have 2-3 grade levels in each school, so they end up going to 4 different schools before they get to high school.
There are a couple of areas that would be worth looking in to. We haven't looked at them as closely as Riverside and Flossmoor, but Oak Lawn, Evergreen Park, and Beverly are certainly options. Oak Forest and Tinley Park which are farther south and closer to Flossmoor but on the west side of I-57 could be considered as well.
Anyway, I hope this was helpful. It is quite a difficult decision on where to live especially when you've got children to worry about.
I think ajw's experience is pretty similar to others that I have helped find homes in the region as well as my own first hand commute.
The amount of housing dollars you have to spend, the ease of commuting (for both spouses in those households where that is a factor), the organization and quality of the schools either public or private (which should also be confirmed with at least a few visits) and the overall vision you have for where your kids will call "home" are highly personal choices.
I agree that the AM commute is pretty consistently better than the PM commute. If one was heading to any the of the closer burbs along the BNSF it would be easier to take the Stevenson. Areas like Riverside & Brookfield as well as parts of LaGrange are very convenient to the 1st Ave entrance/exit. Other towns like Western Springs, Indian Head Park, and parts of Burr Ridge may also to easier accessed than via exits further west. Even if one was heading all the way out to someplace like Downers Grove from Hyde Park the Eisenhower would not be a time saver. The public transit options for a family where one spouse is working in Hyde Park and the other is in the Loop mean that the BNSF is a top choice, generally providing travel times to the Loop that are at least as quick as the CTA options from towns that border the city, though not being a good option to Hyde Park...
For folks with assocations to the labs at Argonne and committments in Hyde Park as well the range of good options in the west suburbs remain quite nice.
I also know, again from direct experience, that when comparing prices in Flossmoor and the western burbs, that there are some very similar purchase prices with WILDLY different real estate taxes:
I also know, again from direct experience, that when comparing prices in Flossmoor and the western burbs, that there are some very similar purchase prices with WILDLY different real estate taxes:
The house located in flossmoor is near the Flossmoor Country Club which is a high income neighborhood. Just by looking at the google map street view. It appears to be in a much nicer neighborhood than the Willowbrook home. The willowbrook house is by far the nicest house on the street and the rest of the houses surrounding it are much smaller and not as expensive. The neighborhood appears to be no where near as appealing as the neighborhood that the flossmoor home is located in. The house in flossmoor is surrounded by comparable homes. I wouldn't consider those two homes to be comparable, considering the flossmoor home is located in a much nicer neighborhood. Obviously the flossmoor home would be a more expensive purchase when factoring in it's property tax bill.
The discrepency in taxes is HUGE -- more than double. And for the privledge of those far higher taxes in Flossmoor the purchaser will have a far greater distance to the Loop and other employment centers, considerably less well regarded schools, longer rail and vehicle commutes to just about everything as well as the pride of knowing their taxes support winners like Bill Beavers...
The difficulty, which I point out not just about Flossmoor but other suburbs with a relatively small number of higher end homes, is that if one does purchase in an area where the median price is below your target price you often end up shouldering a far greater than average tax burden. In contrast if you purchase a home closer / below an area's median price you get a relatively less crushing property tax bill. That bill is going to dog a home owner year in and year out, whether you send you kids to private schools or they go off to college. Don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to property taxes as a method of funding local units of governments, and I have no problem supporting schools even after my kids are done, but from a practical standpoint when there is such disparity between very similar homes either of which could make a lovely home for a two income family I cannot fathom why one would choose to more than double their own taxes...
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