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Old 12-12-2014, 01:44 PM
 
397 posts, read 441,448 times
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I hadn't considered the afterschool issue. I've been in Illinois long enough to forget that public schools often have afterschool care. Our kids have always attended private schools that provided before and after school care for a very reasonable fee.

We are almost certain that we will be moving to Phoenix. I've been researching school districts in the East Valley part of Phoenix and each one offers before and after school care for a reasonable fee. They also offer camps when school is not in session. They do art, music and dance and provide homework assistance. Hours are 6:30 to 6:30 and the cost is between $200 and $300 a month for afterschool care. It's crazy that the good school districts here don't offer these services. Especially when you consider that most families cannot afford to live in a town like Glen Ellyn or Wheaton without a second income.
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Old 12-12-2014, 02:21 PM
 
28,394 posts, read 68,582,141 times
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Default It is a mindset thing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTW2013 View Post
I hadn't considered the afterschool issue. I've been in Illinois long enough to forget that public schools often have afterschool care. Our kids have always attended private schools that provided before and after school care for a very reasonable fee.

We are almost certain that we will be moving to Phoenix. I've been researching school districts in the East Valley part of Phoenix and each one offers before and after school care for a reasonable fee. They also offer camps when school is not in session. They do art, music and dance and provide homework assistance. Hours are 6:30 to 6:30 and the cost is between $200 and $300 a month for afterschool care. It's crazy that the good school districts here don't offer these services. Especially when you consider that most families cannot afford to live in a town like Glen Ellyn or Wheaton without a second income.
My take is based on literally DECADES of seeing the same sorts of folks end up serving on school boards and park district and even the local organizing committee for YMCAs and such -- these are largely "ultra traditionalists". Folks that absolutely CAN afford a nice suburban home on just a single income because they are a partner at a major accounting firm, an executive at a bank, a well compensated medical specialist, an attorney or similar relatively high income MAN that is kind of out of touch with the realities of two income families. They serve on these volunteer boards as much to boost to their own career as out of any sense of "service" and though most of them are not "bad guys" they just do not recognize the reality of two income families. Even if / when more modern WOMEN in the community step up and say "hey could you PLEASE offer full day kindergarten OR before / after care OR some other SERVICES to help dual income families" the response is often that they don't want to cut into what is actually a very vital part of the local church's / community organizations base for those NAYCE type offerings...'

I gather that in more "boom town" type towns there is less of this and certainly this does not happen in states that were in not for massive corporation relocation would still have an economy based on cancer causing habit forming substance (hellooooo Carolinas...).

And the funny thing is that it mostly works to the advantage of those that understand the upsides -- I mean my kids did great with the setup and frankly are lots better off than many of the kids whose stay-at-home moms raised not-so-resilient kids that were it not for parental connection would never land an interview let alone an actual paying job...

Meanwhile I see another sub-generation of the same sort of simpy corporate climbers clamoring to be 'elected' to the various local offices / volunteering their time at the YMCA or similar organizations and failing to respond to the reality that one reason why working moms don't run for these things is they are too darned BUSY taking kids to soccer or hockey or dance to waste time with a bunch of out of touch white-bread 'corporate warriors' or "S-A-Ms that really have let whatever analytic skills they may have once had when they worked atrophy with excessive time spent in spandex...

I frankly have visited Phoenix and the surrounding areas but really do not know lots of young families with kids that could confirm whether it is more like DuPage Co or some boomtown in the Carolinas.

Last edited by chet everett; 12-12-2014 at 02:34 PM..
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Old 12-12-2014, 02:45 PM
 
397 posts, read 441,448 times
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I'd guess that the majority of the families in all of the nice western suburbs (Naperville, Wheaton, Downer Grove, Elmhurst, Hinsdale, etc) are dual income. Despite the stereotype of the Naperville SAHM.

I also wonder about whether the 'older' families in those towns, i.e. people who bought in the mid 1990's or before, understand how expensive their towns are today. We know some families who have very middle class income who live in Hinsdale and Elmhurst. I wonder how they did they afford to buy their house and then realize they bought in 1993 (or something). Maybe those people running the community organizations, etc. don't care too much taxes when their houses are paid off and they're sitting with major equity. It matters much more to a young family moving in with a $400K+ mortgage.

We're really hoping our transfer to Phoenix comes through for many reasons. I know it's no utopia but I worry so much about our future in the Chicago area. It's so expensive now and it will only get worse.
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Old 12-12-2014, 02:57 PM
 
11,972 posts, read 27,010,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTW2013 View Post
Hours are 6:30 to 6:30 and the cost is between $200 and $300 a month for afterschool care. It's crazy that the good school districts here don't offer these services. Especially when you consider that most families cannot afford to live in a town like Glen Ellyn or Wheaton without a second income.
I think the after school programs in Glen Ellyn are only a little more expensive than that. I know Kindergarten programs are around $500, and they would cost more because of the half day at school and the kids are younger and require more supervision. But hours were only till 6 p.m. We have been lucky enough to not require any other after school help after first grade...

What difference does it make if the services are provided by the schools verses a park district or YMCA? You're paying tuition either way. I always liked the Y program since it got the kids out of the school and in to a building with a pool, climbing wall, gym, and offered a lot of extra programming. To me this is MUCH better than the after school programs in Chicago schools that are basically kids doing homework in school buildings.

A friend of mine had her pre-teen kids in after school programs at St. Ben's in the city, and that was one thing that got her to move to the suburbs--along with taking a job close to her home. She was not impresssed with the things that the junior high kids were doing in the after school program, and advised us to avoid the "in school" options in Chicago Catholic schools.
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Old 12-12-2014, 03:06 PM
 
28,394 posts, read 68,582,141 times
Reputation: 18240
Default One big reason...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookout Kid View Post
I think the after school programs in Glen Ellyn are only a little more expensive than that. I know Kindergarten programs are around $500, and they would cost more because of the half day at school and the kids are younger and require more supervision. But hours were only till 6 p.m. We have been lucky enough to not require any other after school help after first grade...

What difference does it make if the services are provided by the schools verses a park district or YMCA? You're paying tuition either way. I always liked the Y program since it got the kids out of the school and in to a building with a pool, climbing wall, gym, and offered a lot of extra programming. To me this is MUCH better than the after school programs in Chicago schools that are basically kids doing homework in school buildings.

A friend of mine had her pre-teen kids in after school programs at St. Ben's in the city, and that was one thing that got her to move to the suburbs--along with taking a job close to her home. She was not impresssed with the things that the junior high kids were doing in the after school program, and advised us to avoid the "in school" options in Chicago Catholic schools.
Tax Information for Parents

Publication 503 (2013), Child and Dependent Care Expenses


vs

Quote:
Property Tax Deduction
Your property taxes are fully deductible. As with your mortgage interest, you simply need to add up everything that you paid during the year, available on the property tax statement that your county or city sends you. Instead of reporting them on line 10 of your Schedule A where you report your mortgage interest, though, you report them on line 6.
Of course the odds of convincing the dunderheads that don't want / need their kids in such programs is a whole other subject...
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Old 12-12-2014, 04:07 PM
 
7,367 posts, read 9,078,215 times
Reputation: 8448
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
My take is based on literally DECADES of seeing the same sorts of folks end up serving on school boards and park district and even the local organizing committee for YMCAs and such -- these are largely "ultra traditionalists". Folks that absolutely CAN afford a nice suburban home on just a single income because they are a partner at a major accounting firm, an executive at a bank, a well compensated medical specialist, an attorney or similar relatively high income MAN that is kind of out of touch with the realities of two income families. They serve on these volunteer boards as much to boost to their own career as out of any sense of "service" and though most of them are not "bad guys" they just do not recognize the reality of two income families. Even if / when more modern WOMEN in the community step up and say "hey could you PLEASE offer full day kindergarten OR before / after care OR some other SERVICES to help dual income families" the response is often that they don't want to cut into what is actually a very vital part of the local church's / community organizations base for those NAYCE type offerings...'

I gather that in more "boom town" type towns there is less of this and certainly this does not happen in states that were in not for massive corporation relocation would still have an economy based on cancer causing habit forming substance (hellooooo Carolinas...).

And the funny thing is that it mostly works to the advantage of those that understand the upsides -- I mean my kids did great with the setup and frankly are lots better off than many of the kids whose stay-at-home moms raised not-so-resilient kids that were it not for parental connection would never land an interview let alone an actual paying job...

Meanwhile I see another sub-generation of the same sort of simpy corporate climbers clamoring to be 'elected' to the various local offices / volunteering their time at the YMCA or similar organizations and failing to respond to the reality that one reason why working moms don't run for these things is they are too darned BUSY taking kids to soccer or hockey or dance to waste time with a bunch of out of touch white-bread 'corporate warriors' or "S-A-Ms that really have let whatever analytic skills they may have once had when they worked atrophy with excessive time spent in spandex...

I frankly have visited Phoenix and the surrounding areas but really do not know lots of young families with kids that could confirm whether it is more like DuPage Co or some boomtown in the Carolinas.
Fantastic post, and not just because you combined "atrophy" with "spandex"...

Completely agree with the "simpy corporate climbers" bit...

Chet, I'm willing to say that I bet you found teaching Botany a bit confining..
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Old 12-26-2014, 08:30 PM
 
375 posts, read 853,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlh27 View Post
I am the parent of an OP elementary school student. The school offerings are not as deadly dire as Chet makes them out to be (at least in OP) - pension funding and property taxes are a whole other kettle of fish, but OP taxpayers do highly value their schools and the park district, which partially explains our astronomical property taxes.

One elementary school does offer Spanish immersion; the others typically have Spanish instruction around 4 days a week. Your child will not become fluent outside of the immersion program but they'll have a lot of exposure to the language; some schools have additional opportunities for other languages as well. The art / music / PE programs are fairly robust. Most schools offer a selection of after school activities for students that you can register for, ranging from dance to lego robotics to clay to theater to yoga, etc. - there is a fee that varies based on the class offering, but it's usually reasonable (imo). The Oak Park Park District and library programs and facilities are really quite good with the exception of the swimming program. My son's class sizes ranged from 18 - 20 kids (18 in K).
The park district and private sports are excellent here. I disagree that the PDOP swimming program is poor, however. My three kids have done it for multiple summers. It's really dependent on the teacher. Spark Camp/Jr Spark Camp is a great, affordable summer camp that does a ton of swimming.
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Old 04-13-2015, 07:00 PM
 
2 posts, read 1,570 times
Reputation: 10
Mod cut.

I would be very surprised if the schools in both areas, which have high property taxes, are funded any worse than those in Florida. Wilmette schools have Spanish starting in kindergarten and a choice of languages, including Mandarin and Latin, starting in fifth grade. Both Oak Park and Wilmette They also have a newly-revised science curriculum. Both school districts are very good, but the areas are different. Both have highly educated families. If you value diversity and a short commute, choose Oak Park. If you want to live close to the beach in a leafy suburb with affluent people, choose Wilmette. One thing to consider if you children are small is that Wilmette has half day kindergarten and the after school child care options are not good unless you can afford a nanny or au pair.

Last edited by PJSaturn; 04-13-2015 at 11:15 PM.. Reason: Off-topic comment.
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Old 04-15-2015, 01:57 PM
 
3,795 posts, read 5,606,627 times
Reputation: 2105
And check into the park districts for offerings as well as the YMCAs. I am in Wheaton and my son had it all. Soccer from little on, piano lessions, French classes including a trip to France, architectural drafting programs in high school, you name it. Swimming lessons at beautiful Rice Pool. Not all were provided by the school districts it was something the parents cobbled together by looking at local resources. Had to pay for years of piano lessons. After school care was at College of Dupage or KinderCare. It all worked in the end.
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Old 04-15-2015, 04:51 PM
 
28,394 posts, read 68,582,141 times
Reputation: 18240
Default This is actually a pretty common situation in a wide range of towns...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToriaT View Post
And check into the park districts for offerings as well as the YMCAs. I am in Wheaton and my son had it all. Soccer from little on, piano lessions, French classes including a trip to France, architectural drafting programs in high school, you name it. Swimming lessons at beautiful Rice Pool. Not all were provided by the school districts it was something the parents cobbled together by looking at local resources. Had to pay for years of piano lessons. After school care was at College of Dupage or KinderCare. It all worked in the end.

For parents that do have the motivations to track down all the resources, and sufficient TIME to get things lined up there are MANY place where things can combined / coordinated to fit your needs. It is much more challenging to try to line-up all the potential resources when one is facing a typical corporate relocation schedule that rarely allows more than a few trips beforehand to decide on where to live. That "time pressure" is largely why I strongly recommend that those facing relocation focus on the kinds of towns that make the likelihood of success for most kids so much easier to line-up on a compressed schedule.

I certainly know families that do live in area not known for their excellent schools that do manage to find enough "enrichments" for their children to make it into the most challenging schools but without exception these families have had the sort of life where they've had "time on their side". For some that means they actually grew up in the area, for others they had friends that knew the ropes. The key is that they had a kind of "inside track" that sadly is much harder for newcomers to tap into...
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