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That home is contingent already. I think it's amazing for the money.
BRU67 - that's a good analysis, but this is assuming you had the cash on hand to invest. Average down payment these days is something like 10-12%. I rented for a super long time and didn't feel any shame in it whatsoever. While unusual, the S&P performed at something like 25% last year. Someone savvy would live below their means renting and invest in a mutual fund, as you had said.
I don't really look at homes as an investment. It's (generally) a hedge against inflation and a roof over your head. If you think you will constantly get double digit appreciation YoY, you're gonna have a bad time.
Do you think Berwyn has some sort of stigma associated with it? I mean, I do have a couple of co-workers moving out to the depot district this summer, and they're excited. They're also in their mid 30s, not 20s. What does Berwyn do to create more demand?
Property in Berwyn (and probably the majority of Chicagoland communities to be fair) did not beat inflation over the last 15 years. And a home really is an investment. When you own a home, you are constantly spending money on a whole range of things to maintain and upgrade, and you severely limit your mobility. And ignoring the non-existent appreciation, there are closing cost and realtor commissions associated with getting in and out of it.
When I first moved there in 2003 it had a stigma because of all of the Hispanics who had been moving there since the mid-1990s. It was undergoing one of the most dramatic demographic turnovers in Chicagoland's history during that time period. You probably won't hear blatant snide and racist comments today like we did back then, but when people say it has "bad schools," that's what they're really referring to. I've gotten taken to task for saying this but I lived there for 11 years and know the truth.
I think a bigger issue might be what Chet talked about earlier. The stigma among Millennials of living in the suburbs generally. Berwyn has tried hard to attract the professional and creative demographics but its success on this front has been primarily with young couples looking for their first nest. And because there are no measurables to tell us how many there are, we cannot tell whether this is an upward or stagnant trend. Sales prices might give you an indicator but I don't know. I do know they generally don't stick around once they have kids. And today's young people seem to be all about the City. That people are paying the same for a two-flat in crime-ridden and blighted EGP as they are for one in clean and safe Berwyn may be telling us something.
I think a bigger issue might be what Chet talked about earlier. The stigma among Millennials of living in the suburbs generally. Berwyn has tried hard to attract the professional and creative demographics but its success on this front has been primarily with young couples looking for their first nest. And because there are no measurables to tell us how many there are, we cannot tell whether this is an upward or stagnant trend. Sales prices might give you an indicator but I don't know. I do know they generally don't stick around once they have kids. And today's young people seem to be all about the City. That people are paying the same for a two-flat in crime-ridden and blighted EGP as they are for one in clean and safe Berwyn may be telling us something.
I truly believe that a properly executed campaign that promoted Berwyn as "the little city next to the big city" or something else that would truly show it to be more connected to Chicago that could be very successful in getting more of the kind of young families who claim to be drawn to the diversity of Chicago.
The Pink line service and Metra make it no-brainer from a transit standpoint and there is really no question that Morton West would rank better than pretty much any of the CPS non-exclusively magnet High Schools.
The range of shops along Cermack and near the Depot are certainly more useful than many of the overally hip areas that seem to have become completely focused on only bars and restaurants. There is probably a bit if "build it and they will come, but they might wipe out what is already here" sort of fear about any expansion of live music venues potentially going head-to-head with Fitzgeralds. I suppose there needs to be a sort of delicate balance between promoting something that requires support from both the locals and enough of a draw to get new people into the mix...
In a way there are variation of things that have come up in the Austin thread -- the relative attractiveness of the handful of un-fire-bombed/ not cut up into quasi-legal multi-family homes that hold some appeal to folks looking for a cheap house in the city are a unique counterpoint to the reality that MOST of Berwyn is filled with rather good looking, never molested bungalows that all pretty have walkable streets, clean safe alleys, budget minded local politicians, no vacant lots, and cops and firefighters that have no fear about serving the residents. Maybe that seems "too easy" for folks who desperately want the adventure on pioneer on the "frontiers" of urban survival...
I truly believe that a properly executed campaign that promoted Berwyn as "the little city next to the big city" or something else that would truly show it to be more connected to Chicago that could be very successful in getting more of the kind of young families who claim to be drawn to the diversity of Chicago.
The Pink line service and Metra make it no-brainer from a transit standpoint and there is really no question that Morton West would rank better than pretty much any of the CPS non-exclusively magnet High Schools.
The range of shops along Cermack and near the Depot are certainly more useful than many of the overally hip areas that seem to have become completely focused on only bars and restaurants. There is probably a bit if "build it and they will come, but they might wipe out what is already here" sort of fear about any expansion of live music venues potentially going head-to-head with Fitzgeralds. I suppose there needs to be a sort of delicate balance between promoting something that requires support from both the locals and enough of a draw to get new people into the mix...
In a way there are variation of things that have come up in the Austin thread -- the relative attractiveness of the handful of un-fire-bombed/ not cut up into quasi-legal multi-family homes that hold some appeal to folks looking for a cheap house in the city are a unique counterpoint to the reality that MOST of Berwyn is filled with rather good looking, never molested bungalows that all pretty have walkable streets, clean safe alleys, budget minded local politicians, no vacant lots, and cops and firefighters that have no fear about serving the residents. Maybe that seems "too easy" for folks who desperately want the adventure on pioneer on the "frontiers" of urban survival...
Berwyn currently has an ad campaign and has for about a decade. In fact, I've never seen an ad campaign for any other Chicago suburb. What do you suggest they fix in their ad campaign to draw more young families? Not trying to put you on the spot, I'm just curious as you seem pretty familiar with the town.
I truly believe that a properly executed campaign that promoted Berwyn as "the little city next to the big city" or something else that would truly show it to be more connected to Chicago that could be very successful in getting more of the kind of young families who claim to be drawn to the diversity of Chicago.
The Pink line service and Metra make it no-brainer from a transit standpoint and there is really no question that Morton West would rank better than pretty much any of the CPS non-exclusively magnet High Schools.
The range of shops along Cermack and near the Depot are certainly more useful than many of the overally hip areas that seem to have become completely focused on only bars and restaurants. There is probably a bit if "build it and they will come, but they might wipe out what is already here" sort of fear about any expansion of live music venues potentially going head-to-head with Fitzgeralds. I suppose there needs to be a sort of delicate balance between promoting something that requires support from both the locals and enough of a draw to get new people into the mix...
In a way there are variation of things that have come up in the Austin thread -- the relative attractiveness of the handful of un-fire-bombed/ not cut up into quasi-legal multi-family homes that hold some appeal to folks looking for a cheap house in the city are a unique counterpoint to the reality that MOST of Berwyn is filled with rather good looking, never molested bungalows that all pretty have walkable streets, clean safe alleys, budget minded local politicians, no vacant lots, and cops and firefighters that have no fear about serving the residents. Maybe that seems "too easy" for folks who desperately want the adventure on pioneer on the "frontiers" of urban survival...
I never sensed anti-gentrification sentiment in Berwyn. Sure there was a little tension between the "old school" blue collar types who still lived there and the new young professional residents, but it was never really a huge issue, and I suspect it's much less of one now. And let's be honest, it is a long, long way off from seeing Cermak lined with fussy fusion bistros, fair trade movie-themed coffee shops, and craft breweries.
As a former resident there and a current resident of Little Village, I think gentrification "fears" are significantly overblown. Yes, "community activists" will vandalize the new coffee shops with graffiti essentially telling themselves to get out. And yes, some politicians will grandstand with legislation such as Will Guzzardi's Rent Control Preemption Act (HB 2430) and the utterly ridiculous Rent Control Act (SB 3512) proposed by Sen. Mattie Hunter, which hopes to install "Rent Control Boards" in every county like in the USSR c. 1961. But most of the residents of communities which are seeing signs of positive progress are happy to see that progress. The majority of the angst stems from white guilt or is politically motivated. After all, elected officials presiding over low income wards/communities have a very real reason to fear demographic change.
I think the issue lies in the mentality of the younger generation. I remain just mind-blown that EGP is more discussed as a destination for hipsters/artists than Berwyn or Cicero are, but it is a real thing. Superficial, yes, but its something that Berwyn is going to have to try to overcome.
Berwyn currently has an ad campaign and has for about a decade. In fact, I've never seen an ad campaign for any other Chicago suburb. What do you suggest they fix in their ad campaign to draw more young families? Not trying to put you on the spot, I'm just curious as you seem pretty familiar with the town.
You asked Chet but if you ask me, nothing. I think they're doing it as best as they can. And for all I know, it's very successful. There are just no measurables from which we can draw any conclusions.
I just know I hate going to the Berwyn Starbucks at Cermak and Harlem that, according to the experts, no one would ever go to - because I have to wait in a long freakin' line, LOL!
Berwyn is doing just fine with its ad campaign. Nothing like a suburb. And its so true. I've spent a great deal of time in Berwyn over the past few years and you could fool me that you are not in the city itself in such a place like Portage Park or Jefferson Park. There are a few things standing in the way. One you have got the reputation of the schools. The second is that despite it all, its a suburb. And there is a stigma to such a thing and its farther away than most of the hotspots in the city but not farther than some of the far flung city neighborhoods. And lastly, its sixty percent Hispanic which causes some people pause. Berwyn has done a good job of attracting new businesses and they recently took Tony's grocery store away from N. Riverside to which will be moving to Cermak Plaza. The Starbucks is packed, the lines are long but so are the McDonald and Dunkin Donuts. The police protection and city services are so much better than anything you could get in Chicago. It mystifies me why anyone would move to East Garfield Park instead of Berwyn.
You asked Chet but if you ask me, nothing. I think they're doing it as best as they can. And for all I know, it's very successful. There are just no measurables from which we can draw any conclusions.
I just know I hate going to the Berwyn Starbucks at Cermak and Harlem that, according to the experts, no one would ever go to - because I have to wait in a long freakin' line, LOL!
And don't forget the 16th Street Theater in Berwyn.... the best, most current and innovative theater West of the city of Chicago, and arguably one of the best in the city as well. And so affordable, and charming and accessible and cutting edge. Love it. It's as great as Fitzgerald's in its genre.
For years, Starbucks absolutely did not want to come to Berwyn because of the demographics. The BDC tried unsuccessfully for years and a past mayor in the mid 2000s even boasted he was going to fly to Seattle to make a plea in person.
The only reason they finally came was because of that new development at Cereal and Harlem. I don't know the numbers but it has to be one of their highest grossing stores. It's always packed, as anyone who could look past the average income spreadsheets knew was going to happen given there is a lack of coffee shops in that area.
I think the issue lies in the mentality of the younger generation. I remain just mind-blown that EGP is more discussed as a destination for hipsters/artists than Berwyn or Cicero are, but it is a real thing. Superficial, yes, but its something that Berwyn is going to have to try to overcome.
because if youre 25 and playing in a punk band and living hand to mouth, living off the BNSF metra line is pretty much the last place on earth youd want to be. this is a completely different demographic than a young professional couple buying their first house who is moving on from a condo in Andersonville or whatever. reality is, if berwyn does get more expensive over time, its going to be because of spillover from oak park, not because kids are deciding to run clandestine DIY techno spaces or whatever people associate the embryonic stages of gentrification with. this isnt Berlin circa 1996. reality is, berwyn has always been a pretty nice place to live generally speaking. the housing stock has been well maintained, the parks are attractive, there is decent commercial presence. if anything, its stereotypical boring bungalow belt. thats not a bad thing. theres lots of these sorts of neighborhoods, but i dont know why its always berwyn people are trying to make a "thing". it has as much cachet as lyons or stickney...are we talking about the impending gentrification of those towns too? the phenomenon of gentrification is a more unique occurrence than most people give it credit for (and property values rising does not by default equal gentrification). a quick commute either by cycling or CTA, walkable, proximity to other desirable city neighborhoods, and a neighborhood defined by cheap live/work spaces is what most of these kids are looking for. they will move to EGP before berwyn because its WAY cheaper than Berwyn, which is the primary consideration. and reality is the untapped south side with good L access will continue to attract this segment well before the suburbs do. the Pink/Orange/Green/South Red line branches all have untapped potential and would still offer a resident easy frequent access to downtown.
thats not to say there arent thing Berwyn couldnt be doing. the suburbs (berwyn included) are still not really a realistic option for people who want to live car free lifestyles, and thats why the city has seen so much of a resurgence in recent years. you can realistically not own a car in Bridgeport or Rogers Park. IMO itd be far more difficult in berwyn. its shocking to me how far behind a lot of these towns remain in a lot of the current urban planning trends, such as road diets, bike lanes, improved pedestrian experiences, finely grained retail, etc. Have you ever tried to get from lets say South Berwyn to the SW side of Chicago on a bike? literally your only option to get dumped onto the horrendous and terrifying Ogden Connector which resembles an interstate expressway more than a local arterial. ive even tried to get to some of those big box stores from the SW side on a bike and i am here to tell you it is not an easy task. even walking is nearly impossible.
Take Ogden as an example...it has a bike lane in Chicago. Still not a great cycling experience by any means, but there are at least some attempts at allowing for cyclists and making accommodations for them, and laying the groundwork for even better infrastructure in the future. I can ride Lake Street through the West Side...gritty neighborhoods, sure, but I at least feel safe that I have adequate spacing from vehicular traffic with fully buffered lanes. By comparison, the inner burbs have a long way to go at creating the amenities that appeal to younger demographics. Cermak in particular i think has a lot of potential to become something special over time...but as it stands its not a pleasant place to spend time in anything other than a car.
at the end of the day, berwyn stands better poised than a lot of places to capitalize on these things. the prewar grid and housing are inherent advantages that places further west simply cant replicate. but it needs to unlock that potential for it to do any good...its in a tricky spot in that its not FULLY urban (what i would consider having all of your daily needs within walking distance), and thats what people are really looking for right now. and its never going to just given the layout and top-heavy residential vs commercial makeup. but if its going to have any hope at all, it needs to move away from auto-sewer strip malls and car dealerships as the default commercial component. unfortunately, as much as people like to pretend that the pink line is a viable option for someone living in Berwyn, it really isnt. and all that leaves you with is the white collar focused Metra, with its once an hour service during non-peak hours. otherwise, you need to own a car, and at that point youre losing out on a lot of people who might otherwise be interested.
Last edited by via chicago; 05-29-2018 at 12:12 PM..
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