The madness of Chicago Public Schools... (dangerous, money, classroom)

[tonythetuna]

Originally Posted by nana053

Interestingly, I did find research that says Chicago's are doing better than those in other parts of the nation.

Thanks. That is what I said to begin with. I appreciate you following up.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

No, but I believe that we focus far too much on calculus and not nearly enough on linear algebra. This made sense years ago but is a mistake in the computing age. Not all of the classic approaches remain equally relevant as technologies evolve. It is a real issue I have in hiring technical staff in my company.

I understand your point, but I think you're thinking a little far out as far as CPS is concerned (I don't think they tend to receive a lot of criticism for overemphasizing calculus).

Let me address the concept in another way - why don't we teach kids how to type anymore?

If you want to talk about a way to increase productivity, why would we stop teaching fundamentals for an activity that so many jobs now rely on - who *doesn't* use a keyboard in the course of a day?

I was in the last Typing class St. Ignatius ever offered- it got sacrificed so kids could have a "computer" class. And the computer training is important - but I guarantee you the fact I can type 80 wpm on a bad day has been a help in everything I've done on a computer for 2 decades now. Just do the math - someone who types "hunt and peck" style is going to do everything slower. Ironically, these folks also tend to be the worst in terms of typos.

I'd say for basic math and reading/writing the same concept applies - so to bring it back to CPS, any school that can't turn out 75% of their 8th graders able to read, write, and perform basic math by hand (addition, subtraction, division, multiplication) should have its house cleaned.

That may not be fair to the teachers, but the status quo is certainly not fair for the kids.

[prinsessa]

I agree with the typing. In H.S. I took a typing class and had to learn how to type with a blindfold on. I don't think most kids need to be taught how to use a computer.

[ajolotl]

my grandfather knew endless tricks for multiplying numbers with many digits quickly in his head. He thought it was an indispensable skill. I thought it sounded completely irrelevant in the world of the calculator.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

my grandfather knew endless tricks for multiplying numbers with many digits quickly in his head. He thought it was an indispensable skill. I thought it sounded completely irrelevant in the world of the calculator.

Well, it's maybe not so much irrelevant as easily substituted for with a calculator or pen and paper. But it has to be much more efficient to do it in your head. Especially if your hands are occupied. Even in pro sports, where in my experience 50%+ of all male CPS students seemed to think they had a calling, you need to be mentally calculating physics/numbers all the time.

Of course, I'm going to go out on a limb and say the majority of CPS kids aren't cursed with the ability you describe above.

[chet everett]

The reporting of WBEZ is exceptional when it comes to comes to covering CPS.

One story shows the frustration / futility that many folks run into trying to find an acceptable CPS path for their kids. Even the "good news" part of the story, citing Nettlehorst as an example of how parts banded together to improve a neighborhood school, hints at the almost inevitable direction of schools to tend toward a homogeneity when they are successful, as the uninvolved, largely transient parents /kids tend to be forced out as wiser more involved parents get on-board.



Far more disturbing is the story of how lunatic CTU members literally shout down proposals for Charter Schools that have the best promise of helping to give disadvantaged kids a path to success with thuggish tactics designed solely to preserve their precious pension loving Union. Folks if you listen to the audio you'll hear the insanity of these people that would rather have some incompetent boob in charge of a school to someone that only wants to help lift kids up...

Diverse neighborhoods, segregated schools | WBEZ


School board yanks proposals for new charter schools | WBEZ

[Snowden Is Cold]

I fear that the anti-letter grade, anti-homework people in this thread are right. If you think about it, letter grades are essentially a way to punish students and kill their curiosity. Basic psychology says that you should reward good behavior. But giving a student a "D" is punishing good behavior. A student who gets a "D" got 60% of the questions on a test right--that's possibly 60% more than what they would have gotten before taking the class. Maybe they haven't learned everything that you wanted them to learn, but they learned something. That bit of learning should be rewarded to encourage their curiosity and development. But instead they are slapped in the face with a "D" and shamed before their peers and parents. If a student is punished everytime he or she learns something, they are going to develop a negative reaction to learning and not want to continue.

Children are born naturally curious. It is schools that kill that curiosity. Have you noticed how people often give pre-school aged children gifts that promote education and creativity? But once kids enter school, you can't get them those kinds of gifts anymore because education is no longer fun.

My biggest fear is that this misguided method isn't misguided at all. It's hard to believe that educational leaders are too stupid not to know this. Rather, I fear that they know all too well about these effects. I fear that the role of schools isn't just to educate, but to condition the population into roles of subservience. It is a discipline regimen as much as anything. Of course students who get "A's" will be less effected by this because they are not punished as much. But there are different roles in our society and there must exist a system that defines those roles. The elite would prefer that writers only know how to write, that accountants only know how to account, that truck drivers only know how to drive a truck. People with more complete, well-rounded knowledge are more capable of understanding their system (which involves the coordination of many disciplines). Most people are likely to get average to poor grades in at least one subject and thus not develop that particular faculty.

I don't mean to come across as self-important, but I suspect that my understanding of these concepts comes from the unique nature of my educational background. I was homeschooled, and my mom didn't give me grades (or at least she didn't make it a focus) on nearly every subject except one: math. I loved learning every subject except one. Can you guess which? I excelled when I went to college and graduated with honors. I miss college and wish I could have continued with it. But I talk to some of my friends, and they say they are glad to be done with it. I suspect their grades weren't so hot and that's why they didn't enjoy the wonderful learning environment that college offers. To them it was a long series of punishment that has finally ended.

Well, that's just a crackpot theory that I came up with by myself, though I suspect that there are others that have arrived at such a conclusion earlier. And some of the empirical evidence found in those sources posted earlier seems to lend support to the theory.

[dewthedru]

What in the world are you talking about? Your first paragraph is so nonsensical that I can't figure out if you're serious or not.

School is both a means of educating the child and a way to get them ready for their professional lives. Not only is your theory absurd, it would be a real shock to them when they graduate and all of the sudden college/work requires much more effort and results and nobody is rewarding them for simply showing up and being curious.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Snowden Is Cold

Children are born naturally curious. It is schools that kill that curiosity.

Speaking as a parent of a five year old, I think this is a pretty silly statement. The laws of physics combined with a nervous system that registers pain is what stops kids from doing things just because they're curious what the result is.

Pet cat improperly? Get scratched. Don't do that again.

Jump off of furniture? Get bruise/broken bone. Don't do that again.

Spill dad's beer goofing around? Oh, let's not even go there...

[Snowden Is Cold]

Originally Posted by dewthedru

What in the world are you talking about? Your first paragraph is so nonsensical that I can't figure out if you're serious or not.

Let me clarify with a syllogism.

Premise 1: Receiving a bad grade is a form of punishment.

Premise 2: A child that receives a bad grade has learned something.

Conclusion: A child that has learned something has been punished.

School is both a means of educating the child and a way to get them ready for their professional lives.

I wouldn't disagree. But it speaks something about the nature of our professional lives that children must be conditioned in this way to perform them. People advocating for school reform are hoping to change society in some way. You are merely pointing out that current schools are effective in preparing people for current society. If you are satisfied with the way society is now, you should be satisfied with the way the schools are run.

School is both a means of educating the child and a way to get them ready for their professional lives. Not only is your theory absurd, it would be a real shock to them when they graduate and all of the sudden college/work requires much more effort and results and nobody is rewarding them for simply showing up and being curious.

Right. The next question is, why does work require more effort--as you put it. I would call it obedience.