Why is the Chicago "Blaccent" More Southern than Boston/NYC/Philly's? (Springfield: how much, living in)

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by It'sAutomatic

You're really overestimating the numbers of black immigrants. Just looking around Wikipedia (not a perfect source, I know), it says that Jamaicans are 3.5% of the population of the borough (1), yet African-Americans (including Jamaicans) are 35.8% of the population (2). This is the borough most associated with West Indian immigration. In the Bronx, Sub-Saharan Africans make up 4.4% of the population versus 30.8% of total blacks (3).

Your tales of non-American black influence are interesting and not incorrect, but I do think you're discounting lots of long-standing AA neighborhoods. There is a lot of West Indian influence in all of these, but Fort Greene, Bed-Stuy, Brownsville, and East New York are huge and have been 95% black since before Caribbean immigration was a thing, and while I'm not there on the ground to prove it, I don't think all of the black people got up and moved out. Not to mention Harlem, East Harlem & LES (public housing), the entire south half of the Bronx, and south Queens...


(1) New York City ethnic enclaves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(2) Brooklyn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(3) Demographics of the Bronx - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's hard to get a precise gauge on, right? I'm of West Indian and African American descent yet I simply mark "Black or African American" on the Census. And a lot of second-generation West Indians fall into that camp. Kareem Abdul Jabar, Louis Farrakhan, Kerry Washington, Nia Long, Gwen Ifill, Eric Holder, Colin Powell, Busta Rhymes, Biggie Smalls, Constance Baker Motley, Sean Patrick Thomas, Heather Headley and Tatyana Ali are (were) all people that we think of as being "African American" despite the fact they have very recent West Indian heritage. There are many black New Yorkers who have one parent of West Indian descent and one of Black American descent. And there are many people who may have two parents of West Indian descent but identify as "African American" because they feel more American than West Indian.

But that's neither here nor there. Back to accents...

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by Atlanta_BD

I've found that Chicagoans in the poorer areas on the south and west sides have a stronger southern accent. As already mentioned, the northeast has more black immigrants (or descendants of island immigrants) than does Chicago.

That's typically the case. The poorer the neighborhood, the more likely it seems that you'll hear southern accents. If you get away from the Yuppie parts of DC and go to River Terrace, Barry Farms or Naylor Gardens, you hear a distinctly southern accent in many speakers. The middle class, however, speaks with a General American accent for the most part.

In the Northeast, however, the spectrum seems to run from General American English (more educated, middle to upper class people) to the regional accent. When you go to Brownsville or Deep into North Philly, you don't get southern accents, but instead you get Mike Tyson, Bernard Hopkins or Lil' Mama. The overall regional accent seems to predominant in the ghettos.

Also, while immigrants certainly have some impact on black speech in the Northeast, it doesn't explain why blacks have the same accents as whites.


Accent Tag (Boston) - YouTube

[Drover]

My speculation is that it was easier for the largely non-rhotic "blaccent" to adapt to the similarly non-rhotic speech patterns in the Northeast whereas the Great Lakes regional accent is one of the most rhotic in the English-speaking world; so here the "blaccent" not only wasn't assimilated but became a strong cultural unifier/identifier among the AA community.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by Drover

My speculation is that it was easier for the largely non-rhotic "blaccent" to adapt to the similarly non-rhotic speech patterns in the Northeast whereas the Great Lakes regional accent is one of the most rhotic in the English-speaking world; so here the "blaccent" not only wasn't assimilated but became a strong cultural unifier/identifier among the AA community.

But the Philadelphia accent is rhotic. And blacks still pronounce words much the same way whites do.

Wooda/Water
Furry/Ferry
Fullduphyu/Philadelphia
Oooshen/Ocean
Hooowse/House
Iggles/Eagles

[Atlanta_BD]

Originally Posted by Drover

My speculation is that it was easier for the largely non-rhotic "blaccent" to adapt to the similarly non-rhotic speech patterns in the Northeast whereas the Great Lakes regional accent is one of the most rhotic in the English-speaking world; so here the "blaccent" not only wasn't assimilated but became a strong cultural unifier/identifier among the AA community.

One also has to take into account that the southern blacks in Chicago (whether they are 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation) are descendants of slaves. As slaves blacks by law were not allowed to read or write. Black slaves were taken from African countries where their first language was Wolof, Fullah or some other West African dialect, then brought to America and forced to learn to speak English while at the same time being forbidden to formally learn the language.

This "blaccent" we speak of was born out of the forced illiteracy of African slaves.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

But the Philadelphia accent is rhotic. And blacks still pronounce words much the same way whites do.

Wooda/Water
Furry/Ferry
Fullduphyu/Philadelphia
Oooshen/Ocean
Hooowse/House
Iggles/Eagles

If I'm to take your word for it that the guy in the video you linked above has something approximating a Philly accent, then it sure doesn't sound very rhotic to this Chicagoan's ears. He calls himself "the Lone Range-uh;" when he says "words" it sounds a bit like "woyds" to me; "theater" sounds like "thea-tuh"; "water" wouldn't be pronounced "wooda" in a rhotic region, etc.

[DC's Finest]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

Yes, there is a lot of Caribbean and African immigration. But Black New Yorkers spoke with New York accents even before the last massive immigration from the Caribbean beginning in the 70s (e.g., Jay-Z, Tracy Morgan, etc.). And Philadelphia has not had nearly as much of that type of immigration yet blacks there don't sound southern.

Blacks in Philly do sound southern. Some of their words like ocean come off as Oh-sheen.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by Atlanta_BD

One also has to take into account that the southern blacks in Chicago (whether they are 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation) are descendants of slaves. As slaves blacks by law were not allowed to read or write. Black slaves were taken from African countries where their first language was Wolof, Fullah or some other West African dialect, then brought to America and forced to learn to speak English while at the same time being forbidden to formally learn the language.

This "blaccent" we speak of was born out of the forced illiteracy of African slaves.

That might explain the origins of the "blaccent" but it doesn't explain the continuation of it in places where it wasn't previously rooted. That's a cultural affectation. The AA community could just as easily adapt the speech patterns of the communities around them as anyone else whose families do so within a generation or two. Or even less. My dad is originally from Texas; you'll never hear a drawl out of his mouth and certainly not from any of his kids.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by Drover

If I'm to take your word for it that the guy in the video you linked above has something approximating a Philly accent, then it sure doesn't sound very rhotic to this Chicagoan's ears. He calls himself "the Lone Range-uh;" when he says "words" it sounds a bit like "woyds" to me; "theater" sounds like "thea-tuh"; "water" wouldn't be pronounced "wooda" in a rhotic region, etc.

Philadelphians, for the most part, enunciate their "Rs" rather clearly. We say, for example, "third" whereas someone with a classic New York accent would say "Toid." Italians in the Delaware Valley are the largest exception to this rule.

So the Philly dialect is a rhotic one. I'm not so concerned about the fact that he puts an "a" at the end of "wooda" than the fact he pronounces water as "wooder," which is what many white Philadelphians do as well.

[Drover]

Still sounds like he's saying "woodah" and "theah-duh" and "renge-uh" to my highly rhotic ears. Though it's less consistently non-rhotic than a classic NY or Boston accent ("door" for instance).

*shrug*

One of the most annoying accents is the old-school New England accent that glosses over not just trailing R sounds but leading R sounds as well, the classic "Baba Wawa" accent. I grew up thinking Barbara Walters had a speech impediment until I got a job that put me in contact with a lot of people in Connecticut. I spoke to one lady who pronounced "Charlie" and "trolley" almost identically.