What do YOU think is middle class income in Chicago? (buy, to live)

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by im_a_lawyer

I know this place disproportionately attracts high income people(there was a survey somewhere) so to you people this all looks fair, but you would be laughed out on any other internet forum. $100,000 is not a lot of money? $80,000 is middle class income? How much money do you think an average person makes?

$100K is a lot of money, but a 'lot of money' doesn't automatically equal the upper class. Anybody who thinks $80K/year is upper class in the US in the 3rd largest city hasn't thought any of this through.

As a SINK making $80K, can it afford you a good lifestyle? Absolutely. However, in no way is it going to afford you to be able to afford a nice upper class living. You aren't going to be affording payments for $1+ Million housing. You aren't going to be affording the ability to purchase a new $100,000+ car every other year. You aren't going to be shopping at Barneys, Prada, Gucci, or Saks every single week. You aren't going to be going on more than a few international vacations per year.

I speak from experience at that salary and I have friends who are solidly in the upper class here too. $80K, barring huge debt and any stupidity in how much you pay in housing per month, will afford you a lifestyle that you can go out and eat and drink at some good restaurants, go on an international vacation once or a few times per year, you could shop at Barneys or Saks but not very much and each time you won't be spending thousands of dollars, you could own a decently nice car but it's not going to be a new Maserati every other year, etc. I have friends and family who are solidly upper class in Chicago and they can afford these things quite comfortably, but people on an $80K or even $100K/year salary? Not even close.

It's obvious to me that you probably don't have any experience at that salary and probably either have no friends legitimately in the upper class to give you any sense of what upper class really means. It's nothing bad, but you should think these things through because mathematically, it's obvious that $80K-$100K is not upper class and will not afford you that lifestyle. Trust me on this.

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by lycos679

I don't think I've ever had a gf share expenses with me.

Then you haven't had girlfriends. You've had women who used you for free stuff.

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Dude. Really? There should be about a 3- 6 month window where the guy is expected to float the socializing expenses.

More like one date. This isn't 1950. If you pay the first time, she'll offer to pay the second time. Otherwise, she isn't looking for an actual relationship so much as free food and drinks.

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by im_a_lawyer

Average condo price is almost $400,000 now.

How do you figure? City-wide it's closer to half of that in the data I've seen.

Originally Posted by im_a_lawyer

$80,000 is middle class income? How much money do you think an average person makes?

"Middle class income" is a range. It's a fairly wide range, in fact. It's not just the exact median or mean income. If you had to earn exactly the average income in order to be middle class, the middle class would be tiny. It's shrinking for sure, but it's not THAT small yet.

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by im_a_lawyer

I'm not a lawyer

[Larry Siegel]

Originally Posted by marothisu

It's obvious to me that you probably don't have any experience at that salary and probably either have no friends legitimately in the upper class to give you any sense of what upper class really means. It's nothing bad, but you should think these things through because mathematically, it's obvious that $80K-$100K is not upper class and will not afford you that lifestyle. Trust me on this.

Even $500K isn't upper class for a family. It's very solidly upper middle class, but you still have to think very carefully before sending multiple kids to private colleges, spending more than $1 million on a house, or taking more than one luxury vacation a year. Then there's saving for retirement. Out of, say, a $300K after tax income you should be saving upwards of $100K. People in the upper class don't have to think very hard about any of that.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Larry Siegel

Even $500K isn't upper class for a family. It's very solidly upper middle class, but you still have to think very carefully before sending multiple kids to private colleges, spending more than $1 million on a house, or taking more than one luxury vacation a year. Then there's saving for retirement. Out of, say, a $300K after tax income you should be saving upwards of $100K. People in the upper class don't have to think very hard about any of that.

I was talking about individual income, especially without kids. Children definitely add a lot to the equation and skew the numbers for sure. But if you are single, and not a lot of debt (if any) - then you're probably living pretty well on around $200K/year. You can't afford an outrageous lifestyle on that, but you can afford definite shades of high class. $80K/year though for a single person is not upper class. Solid middle class.

[jdiddy]

Originally Posted by im_a_lawyer

I'm not a lawyer

We noticed.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

The median condo price was $219K in February, the median SFH price was $141K in February. Honestly if someone can't afford that, they should not own a home.

http://www.illinoisrealtor.org/sites...-Chicago_1.pdf

V:

You know that the harsh weather has had a major impact on the real estate market -- only very dedicated shoppers were out and only very desperate sellers were accepting offers. That made for a very "investor heavy" mix of closed sales...

That said, in the context of what is "middle class" ( which really is very subjective, and a lot harder to define that just "median income"...) there are probably more places in Chicago that though are broadly "middle class" have seen such demand for nicer homes that the relative affordability has really gotten out of whack -- from the "new construction" that is increasingly hard to find for under $500k to existing updated homes in parts of the city with low crime and good transit options that rarely change hands under $300k the opportunity for folks to feel like they have a shot at traditional home ownership is often daunting.

Certainly part of the price pressure is due to folks still smarting from overpaying in areas that were supposed to "the next hot area" that still have unacceptable levels of crime or just too much distance from employment -- in a way this not all that surprising as the trend in pretty much all regions is that nice places keep growing in desirability while places that have negatives have not participated in much of the improvement...

[Larry Siegel]

This discussion once again confuses class and income. A single person making $500,000 is obviously upper income, but being upper-class has more to do with having capital, doing multigenerational wealth planning, and engaging in traditional upper-class activities such as philanthropy.