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Illinois is 100% a Midwestern state inside and out. I think that this is the problem since Chicago feels different from the rest of Illinois. As a resident of Michigan living in Metro Detroit, we don't have this issue. Everyone in Michigan adores and is proud of being from the Great Lakes region and specifically Michigan with the the lakes, traditions, culture, etc. Milwaukee likewise has this exact pride. However, Cleveland and Chicago are located in states that they don't feel apart of. That is why you hear so many people from Cleveland say that Cleveland is an East coast city, and Chicagoans who live in the central time zone in a Midwestern state on steroids, mind you, say..."Chicago is not really midwestern and then take it a step further and place Milwaukee and Metro Detroit-Ann Arbor as midwestern and meanwhile take themselves out.
Well, my message to those Chicagoans is that you live and belong to a state which is a spitting image of Iowa, Indiana, and central Ohio (and there is nothing wrong with that). Illinois is the poster child of the term Midwest. Milwaukee and Metro Detroit belong to the Great Lakes Region. Chicago has much more contacts and connections with the cornfields of the Midwest than does Metro Detroit - Ann Arbor. Perhaps people in Chicago could or should try to argue that Chicago is part of the Great Lakes region although it is located in a Midwestern state. In short, please stop linking Milwaukee, Detroit, and Cleveland to Illinois and then disassociating yourselves from your own state. Michigan, Wisconsin, and northern Ohio belong to the Great Lakes region and certainly do not have more ties with Illinois or the Midwest than Chicago. Instead, you should ask whether YOU belong to the Great Lakes, instead of placing us as having more in common with your state.
And if thinking that you have more in common with the culture and vibe of Boston and New York than the Great Lakes, go for it.
Illinois is like Indiana, Iowa, Missouri, and Ohio.
Chicago on the other hand is like Detroit, Cleveland, and Milwaukee. We are like the Great Lakes, which is separate in culture, ethnic groups, and dialect from the Midwest. I associate more with Michigan than with Illinois. The thing is though, Michigan is 100% a Great Lakes state (I mean it's even the official title of the state) whereas only the Chicago metro is like the Great Lakes while "downstate" is purely Midwestern.
So we're like Cleveland. Besides, most downstate Illinoisians consider St. Louis closer in culture to them than Chicago. St. Louis is actually considered the cultural capital of Southern Illinois. Chicago is as different to Illinois as Cleveland is to Cincinnati.
Michigan on the other hand has more continuity going East to West. Even Grand Rapids isn't THAT much different than Detroit, really. It's more White but architecture, accents, and association with the Great Lakes doesn't change. I have no problem calling Detroit, Cleveland, Grand Rapids, and Milwaukee cities cut from the same cloth. But Cincy, Indy, KC, Omaha? Not by a long shot.
To your last point, Boston and New York are as close in culture as Chicago is to Indianapolis. There is no unifying Northeast culture. There's actually more similarities between Great Lakes cities to each other than Northeastern cities to each other. But the Northeast is a huge region not united by anything other than geography and topography to am extent. Just like the Midwest. The subregions are a better cultural marker. Like, Boston probably has more in common with Providence or Manchester than it does with NYC. Or how Philly is similar to South Jersey. So no, we have more in common with the Great Lakes than we do with Boston or NYC. But Boston and NYC have less in common than Great Lakes cities do with each other.
Illinois is like Indiana, Iowa, Missouri, and Ohio.
Chicago on the other hand is like Detroit, Cleveland, and Milwaukee. We are like the Great Lakes, which is separate in culture, ethnic groups, and dialect from the Midwest. I associate more with Michigan than with Illinois. The thing is though, Michigan is 100% a Great Lakes state (I mean it's even the official title of the state) whereas only the Chicago metro is like the Great Lakes while "downstate" is purely Midwestern.
So we're like Cleveland. Besides, most downstate Illinoisians consider St. Louis closer in culture to them than Chicago. St. Louis is actually considered the cultural capital of Southern Illinois. Chicago is as different to Illinois as Cleveland is to Cincinnati.
Michigan on the other hand has more continuity going East to West. Even Grand Rapids isn't THAT much different than Detroit, really. It's more White but architecture, accents, and association with the Great Lakes doesn't change. I have no problem calling Detroit, Cleveland, Grand Rapids, and Milwaukee cities cut from the same cloth. But Cincy, Indy, KC, Omaha? Not by a long shot.
To your last point, Boston and New York are as close in culture as Chicago is to Indianapolis. There is no unifying Northeast culture. There's actually more similarities between Great Lakes cities to each other than Northeastern cities to each other. But the Northeast is a huge region not united by anything other than geography and topography to am extent. Just like the Midwest. The subregions are a better cultural marker. Like, Boston probably has more in common with Providence or Manchester than it does with NYC. Or how Philly is similar to South Jersey. So no, we have more in common with the Great Lakes than we do with Boston or NYC. But Boston and NYC have less in common than Great Lakes cities do with each other.
Wait, so are you saying that Chicago is like Cleveland and Detroit but not like St. Louis?
And also, parts of MO are similar to IL, but southern MO is absolutely nothing like IL.
Illinois is 100% a Midwestern state inside and out. I think that this is the problem since Chicago feels different from the rest of Illinois. As a resident of Michigan living in Metro Detroit, we don't have this issue. Everyone in Michigan adores and is proud of being from the Great Lakes region and specifically Michigan with the the lakes, traditions, culture, etc. Milwaukee likewise has this exact pride. However, Cleveland and Chicago are located in states that they don't feel apart of. That is why you hear so many people from Cleveland say that Cleveland is an East coast city, and Chicagoans who live in the central time zone in a Midwestern state on steroids, mind you, say..."Chicago is not really midwestern and then take it a step further and place Milwaukee and Metro Detroit-Ann Arbor as midwestern and meanwhile take themselves out.
Well, my message to those Chicagoans is that you live and belong to a state which is a spitting image of Iowa, Indiana, and central Ohio (and there is nothing wrong with that). Illinois is the poster child of the term Midwest. Milwaukee and Metro Detroit belong to the Great Lakes Region. Chicago has much more contacts and connections with the cornfields of the Midwest than does Metro Detroit - Ann Arbor. Perhaps people in Chicago could or should try to argue that Chicago is part of the Great Lakes region although it is located in a Midwestern state. In short, please stop linking Milwaukee, Detroit, and Cleveland to Illinois and then disassociating yourselves from your own state. Michigan, Wisconsin, and northern Ohio belong to the Great Lakes region and certainly do not have more ties with Illinois or the Midwest than Chicago. Instead, you should ask whether YOU belong to the Great Lakes, instead of placing us as having more in common with your state.
And if thinking that you have more in common with the culture and vibe of Boston and New York than the Great Lakes, go for it.
I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I think what you're comparing is how starkly different some cities are with the rest of the state. New York City is NOTHING like upstate New York, which is a lot of mountains, farmland, and stagnant old towns and rust belt cities, the same applies to Chicago, it has almost NOTHING in common with the rest of the state. New Orleans is nothing like northern or central Louisiana, the cities can have a very unique identity very much apart from the region they're located in.
I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I think what you're comparing is how starkly different some cities are with the rest of the state. New York City is NOTHING like upstate New York, which is a lot of mountains, farmland, and stagnant old towns and rust belt cities, the same applies to Chicago, it has almost NOTHING in common with the rest of the state.
Not true. NYC has very close connections with the eastern half of Upstate NY. Places like Albany, Ithaca, the Hudson Valley are very New York-influenced.
Now Western NY is another world. Buffalo is more like Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland than NYC. It's a Great Lakes City. But everything from the Finger Lakes eastward has very strong NYC influence, and everything within about 150 miles of NYC is basically the city's backyard.
Illinois is 100% a Midwestern state inside and out. I think that this is the problem since Chicago feels different from the rest of Illinois. As a resident of Michigan living in Metro Detroit, we don't have this issue. Everyone in Michigan adores and is proud of being from the Great Lakes region and specifically Michigan with the the lakes, traditions, culture, etc. Milwaukee likewise has this exact pride. However, Cleveland and Chicago are located in states that they don't feel apart of. That is why you hear so many people from Cleveland say that Cleveland is an East coast city, and Chicagoans who live in the central time zone in a Midwestern state on steroids, mind you, say..."Chicago is not really midwestern and then take it a step further and place Milwaukee and Metro Detroit-Ann Arbor as midwestern and meanwhile take themselves out.
Well, my message to those Chicagoans is that you live and belong to a state which is a spitting image of Iowa, Indiana, and central Ohio (and there is nothing wrong with that). Illinois is the poster child of the term Midwest. Milwaukee and Metro Detroit belong to the Great Lakes Region. Chicago has much more contacts and connections with the cornfields of the Midwest than does Metro Detroit - Ann Arbor. Perhaps people in Chicago could or should try to argue that Chicago is part of the Great Lakes region although it is located in a Midwestern state. In short, please stop linking Milwaukee, Detroit, and Cleveland to Illinois and then disassociating yourselves from your own state. Michigan, Wisconsin, and northern Ohio belong to the Great Lakes region and certainly do not have more ties with Illinois or the Midwest than Chicago. Instead, you should ask whether YOU belong to the Great Lakes, instead of placing us as having more in common with your state.
And if thinking that you have more in common with the culture and vibe of Boston and New York than the Great Lakes, go for it.
Chicago is part and parcel of the Great Lakes. The rest of Illinois is pretty debatable.
Wait, so are you saying that Chicago is like Cleveland and Detroit but not like St. Louis?
And also, parts of MO are similar to IL, but southern MO is absolutely nothing like IL.
St. Louis is not a Great Lakes city. That being said, our connection is still stronger with them than with say, Cincy, Indy, or Omaha.
Not true. NYC has very close connections with the eastern half of Upstate NY. Places like Albany, Ithaca, the Hudson Valley are very New York-influenced.
Now Western NY is another world. Buffalo is more like Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland than NYC. It's a Great Lakes City. But everything from the Finger Lakes eastward has very strong NYC influence, and everything within about 150 miles of NYC is basically the city's backyard.
Northern NY state is more New England influenced than NYC.
St. Louis is not a Great Lakes city. That being said, our connection is still stronger with them than with say, Cincy, Indy, or Omaha.
It's not on the Great Lakes, but it's definitely a Rust Belt city that shares a lot of the defining characteristics of cities like Cleveland and Detroit and Milwaukee and Chicago.
It's not on the Great Lakes, but it's definitely a Rust Belt city that shares a lot of the defining characteristics of cities like Cleveland and Detroit and Milwaukee and Chicago.
Rust Belt isn't necessarily a culture nor a specific unified region. West Virginia is very Rust Belt in some areas yet nothing like any of the Midwest. Pittsburgh is a Rust Belt city and not much like Chicago (except maybe in ethnic groups). Heck, Baltimore is Rust Belt and is practically...nothing like the Great Lakes (though I hear some Detroit comparisons but these are based on the large Black influence and poverty not anything else). Even Blacks from Detroit aren't terribly similar to Baltimoreans.
But St. Louis is more like Chicago than Indianapolis is for sure. Even the St. Louis accent is considered the Southernmost Northern accent (outside of New Orleans lol). St. Louis to me is kind of Great Lakes, Midwest, and to a small extent Southern rolled into one.
One of the quintessentially Rust Belt states, Pennsylvania, is not very comparable to Chicago even in its largest urban centers. Rust Belt is a status, not a culture. In FACT, one could argue that most of the Midwest is actually NOT in the Rust Belt at all. In this way, Chicago still stands out. There's a region other Midwest cities don't have a very gritty, urban feel the same way the Great Lakes do. Even a small city like Grand Rapids has a very Rust Belt character despite the fact it's surrounded by a lot of woods and rural areas.
If we must consider the Great Lakes Midwestern, then Chicago is that brand of Midwest. But not the Cincinnati or Indianapolis brand. There are definitely cities in the Great Lakes that could be smaller Chicagos like Milwaukee.
Rust Belt isn't necessarily a culture nor a specific unified region. West Virginia is very Rust Belt in some areas yet nothing like any of the Midwest. Pittsburgh is a Rust Belt city and not much like Chicago (except maybe in ethnic groups). Heck, Baltimore is Rust Belt and is practically...nothing like the Great Lakes (though I hear some Detroit comparisons but these are based on the large Black influence and poverty not anything else). Even Blacks from Detroit aren't terribly similar to Baltimoreans.
But St. Louis is more like Chicago than Indianapolis is for sure. Even the St. Louis accent is considered the Southernmost Northern accent (outside of New Orleans lol). St. Louis to me is kind of Great Lakes, Midwest, and to a small extent Southern rolled into one.
One of the quintessentially Rust Belt states, Pennsylvania, is not very comparable to Chicago even in its largest urban centers. Rust Belt is a status, not a culture. In FACT, one could argue that most of the Midwest is actually NOT in the Rust Belt at all. In this way, Chicago still stands out. There's a region other Midwest cities don't have a very gritty, urban feel the same way the Great Lakes do. Even a small city like Grand Rapids has a very Rust Belt character despite the fact it's surrounded by a lot of woods and rural areas.
If we must consider the Great Lakes Midwestern, then Chicago is that brand of Midwest. But not the Cincinnati or Indianapolis brand. There are definitely cities in the Great Lakes that could be smaller Chicagos like Milwaukee.
I understand the distinction between the older cities like Milwaukee, Cleveland, Chicago and newer cities like Columbus and Indy. But I'm still wondering what makes St. Louis so much more culturally different than those other older "Great Lakes" cities. St. Louis absolutely embodies urban grit, maybe even more so than some other typical "Great Lake" cities. It's more on the periphery of the Midwest than say Cleveland, but it's still very Midwestern - Rust Belt Midwestern - way more similar to those Great Lakes cities even than to places elsewhere in Missouri.
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