Illinois......are you staying or leaving? (Chicago, Belleville: crime, new home, unemployment)

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Bellamouse

Because economists are the be all end all of all Truth. Right, sorry, I forgot.

Look, I am done arguing with you, but the reality is, costs in Chicago are so much higher than downstate Illinois, that the numbers are skewed (meaning, the ACTUAL costs - not the average - are higher in Chicago. I lived in Chicago. I didn't live in someplace that had the "average" costs). State income taxes weren't taken into account. Again, skewed. Adjusting for the number of retired people - not done - skewed.

Skewed, skewed, skewed. Just because they are economists does not make them geniuses. No amount of REAL evidence will ever convince someone who lives solely by what "educated people" tell them they need to think.

How does not paying ANY sales tax on groceries not get taken into account? They did not compare like housing to like housing, they just compared AVERAGE housing. What part of this do you not comprehend? Houses run smaller in Chicago just in general. The average size house/lot is smaller up there. So perhaps "housing" costs the same, but does it really? Per square foot? Nope. They didn't take into account any kind of quality of life aspects. Like the SIZE of the house or the lot. I can tell you my QOL was awful up there butt up against my neighbor hearing every fart they made. Now I have SPACE (and clean air!) and I pay significantly less for it.

I really am done. You will never see reality - you will only see your precious "numbers". I honestly don't care what you believe. My message is to others out there - as one of those who lives it for real, and not just in theory, it is definitely cheaper down here.

LOL. People who spend literally their lives studying these things are less informed than you. Be confident, girl, but also be aware of your own limitations.

Neither you nor I have the required skill set to generate, process, normalize, and analyze the raw economic data. The difference between you and I is I don't pretend to. I rely on EXPERTS to do it for me. When numerous EXPERTS come to the same conclusion, I ACCEPT their findings and work to draw LOGICAL conclusions. You should probably do the same, because no matter what you tell yourself, it's not cheaper to live in Florida. The LIFESTYLES are different, but they come at similar price tags.

[Bellamouse]

I have plenty of skill set to see what's right before me. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, IT'S A DUCK. You want to analzye the danged duck to try and make people think it's something else. I don't need to go to some school and be "educated" to tell me a duck is a duck.

Just a quick google search gave me this info from Trulia:

Orlando market trends indicate an increase of $15,000 (8%) in median home sales over the past year. The average price per square foot for this same period rose to $121, up from $112.

Chicago market trends indicate an increase of $10,000 (4%) in median home sales over the past year. The average price per square foot for this same period rose to $197, up from $189.


The point is, the average price per square foot in Orlando ($121) is MUCH less than the average price per square foot for Chicago ($197) (60% of the cost of a Chicago house). Period. End of story. You lose.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Bellamouse

I have plenty of skill set to see what's right before me. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, IT'S A DUCK. You want to analzye the danged duck to try and make people think it's something else. I don't need to go to some school and be "educated" to tell me a duck is a duck.

Just a quick google search gave me this info from Trulia:

Orlando market trends indicate an increase of $15,000 (8%) in median home sales over the past year. The average price per square foot for this same period rose to $121, up from $112.

Chicago market trends indicate an increase of $10,000 (4%) in median home sales over the past year. The average price per square foot for this same period rose to $197, up from $189.


The point is, the average price per square foot in Orlando is MUCH less than the average price per square foot for Chicago (60% of the cost of a Chicago house). Period. End of story. You lose.

LOL, this isn't a competition. Your perception of it being one is kind of sad. I'm hitting you with DATA. You're responding with EMOTION.

Median Housing Prices:
Chicago: 191k
Orlando: 160k

Median Income:
Chicago: 63k
Orlando: 41k

Just as an FYI, housing costs in FL tend to be out of sync with local economies. The reason being that northerners like yourself sell their homes and move down south wealthier than the existing population. They're able to outbid the locals who are then forced to look for housing further from job centers because they literally cannot afford it. Miami is the best example of this.

Miami Median Housing Price: 440k
Miami Median Income: 47k

[Bellamouse]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Median Housing Prices:
Chicago: 191k
Orlando: 160k

Median Income:
Chicago: 63k
Orlando: 41k

Dude. The median income figures are SKEWED! How many times do I have to tell you that? You even admitted it in a previous post. I have already acknowledged that we need to compare SKILLED jobs to SKILLED jobs, not unskilled, and to take out retirees.

Find me the statistics on the median income for SKILLED LABOR ONLY and I might listen to you.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Bellamouse

Dude. The median income figures are SKEWED! How many times do I have to tell you that? You even admitted it in a previous post. I have already acknowledged that we need to compare SKILLED jobs to SKILLED jobs, not unskilled, and to take out retirees.

Find me the statistics on the median income for SKILLED LABOR ONLY and I might listen to you.

Bella, it's not my job to convince you of anything. You're free to feel as you please. Salaries in Florida are lower than they are for comparable work in Illinois. Check out glass door for specific examples if you wish to look further into this.

[Bellamouse]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Bella, it's not my job to convince you of anything. You're free to feel as you please.

Ha. That's because you either can't find it, or it proves me right.

I don't need to prove anything to you. I already KNOW what's true. The duck is a duck. Have a nice day.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Bellamouse

Ha. That's because you either can't find it, or it proves me right.

I don't need to prove anything to you. I already KNOW what's true. The duck is a duck. Have a nice day.

LOL. More like YOU can't find it because you LACK THE SKILL SET to do so.

I'll give you step by step instructions.

1. Open your preferred internet browser

2. Go to Google

3. Search salaries for X profession Orlando

4. Open a new tab on your preferred internet browser and again type www.google.com

5. Search salaries for X profession in Chicago

6. Compare and contrast! (The fun part)

[flamadiddle]

I'd throw this in for comparison. The CCNP (Cisco Certified Network Professional) is one of the most solid and sought after IT certifications. Here's a salary comparison for a CCNP in Chicago vs. several Florida cities.

https://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=ccn...l4=miami%2C+fl

Chicago = $114K

Orlando = $85K

Tampa = $82K

Miami = $90K

Also, regarding the groceries not being taxed in FL, I think the average family spends around $150 per week or $7,800 per year on groceries. Assuming an 8% tax rate, that equates to $624 per year in taxes, which I don't think will break the bank? especially if you're making $20K+ more in Chicago.

[Bellamouse]

Originally Posted by flamadiddle

I'd throw this in for comparison. The CCNP (Cisco Certified Network Professional) is one of the most solid and sought after IT certifications. Here's a salary comparison for a CCNP in Chicago vs. several Florida cities.

https://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=ccn...l4=miami%2C+fl

Chicago = $114K

Orlando = $85K

Tampa = $82K

Miami = $90K

Also, regarding the groceries not being taxed in FL, I think the average family spends around $150 per week or $7,800 per year on groceries. Assuming an 8% tax rate, that equates to $624 per year in taxes, which I don't think will break the bank? especially if you're making $20K+ more in Chicago.

Yes, there are surely individual jobs/fields that pay more in Chicago. But I am looking for an average or median for all skilled jobs.

With regard to the tax on groceries, it's your type of thinking that is what has forced us out of Chicago. "It's just $500/year for vehicle taxes, that won't break the bank?" "It's just $624 for grocery taxes, that won't break the bank?" "It's just $3000 extra per year for property tax, that won't break the bank?" "It's just 3.75% of your total income (for IL state tax), surely that won't break the bank?" And I could go on and on and on. Tax on gasoline. Tax on "entertainment". 10.25% sales tax.

Any one of those by themselves wouldn't break the bank. But start adding them all up and it becomes ridiculous and does in fact, break the bank.

[flamadiddle]

Originally Posted by Bellamouse

Yes, there are surely individual jobs/fields that pay more in Chicago. But I am looking for an average or median for all skilled jobs.

With regard to the tax on groceries, it's your type of thinking that is what has forced us out of Chicago. "It's just $500/year for vehicle taxes, that won't break the bank?" "It's just $624 for grocery taxes, that won't break the bank?" "It's just $3000 extra per year for property tax, that won't break the bank?" "It's just 3.75% of your total income (for IL state tax), surely that won't break the bank?" And I could go on and on and on. Tax on gasoline. Tax on "entertainment". 10.25% sales tax.

Any one of those by themselves wouldn't break the bank. But start adding them all up and it becomes ridiculous and does in fact, break the bank.

Agree if you live within the city limits, but in our situation, we moved back from the Atlanta suburbs where we were paying 6% income tax, 7% sales tax and gas prices/utilities are nearly identical. I transferred two vehicles from Georgia to Illinois and surprisingly only had to pay $196 total per vehicle for plates and the title transfer fee. The Property taxes are really the only difference between the two locations, but those are deductible against federal income tax, essentially giving you a 30% discount so it's not as bad as it initially looks.

Florida may be cheaper overall, but there's nothing comparable to Chicago in Florida. Down the road we may do the snowbird thing and have a place in both locations. Summer in Chicago and Winter in Florida sounds nice to me.