Street level effects of the downtown building boom (Chicago, Lincoln: condo, how much)

[jpdivola]

I'm using downtown broadly to include South Loop, West Loop, Near North Side. How has downtown changed at streetlevel? Has it largely improved the pedestrian feel?

[LeotheOrangeCat]

less sun around Lake St and the river

[jpdivola]

I'm particularly interested in the experience from a residential perspective. One criticism I have long heard about downtown, is that its retail skews more toward tourists/outsiders than it did to the residential base. Has the apt boom helped balance that out somewhat?

[chet everett]

Chicago has long had an inconsistent and largely incoherent set of criteria that rarely encourages development of amenities for the public. The various "plaza" type areas that exist as either public high rises like the Daley Center and Federal Plaza are only useful for about 3 or 4 months out of the year. The privately run plaza at the old First Chicago plaza (now Chase Bank) are not much better, though they do use the auditorium for things like WBEZ's tapings of Wait, Wait Don't Tell Me.

The current crop of new buildings largely have NEITHER any particularly nice "summer use" outdoor areas NOR do they include ANY sort of "all weather" spaces largely because of the perception of developers that tenants, be they either residential or commercial / office are still stressed out over "security issues".

The fact is there are almost certainly WAY TOO MANY chains that dominate the "street level" food offerings. There are several instances where Starbucks has four or five locations that are within a three block walk of each other. Ditto for McDonalds. Chipotle is almost as bad... These things DO NOT ENHANCE the "pedestrian experience". Unfortunately it seems the rents that such stores are willing to pay drive out any local options. The relatively run down remaining un-updated buildings then seem to attract clusters of poorly run food outlets. I have seen this pattern in other cities too, but it seems particularly disasterous in the part of the Loop where there are still a healthy mix of office workers, shoppers, and tourists.

It seems that a smart developer COULD design features into their buildings that did more to re-assure tenants that safety issues were being addressed while STILL offering a nicer mix of spaces that can be profitably rented out to vendors that make the summer and all-year round offerings of the Loop and nearby areas better. There are clearly some very successful businesses that manage to pack in the lunchtime patrons in older buildings along Wabash and such without any "security issues". One would think that all the LEED certified new buildings could also have appropriate measures to ensure that there were MORE good options in part of the Loop that are far too sterile...

The issues that make it a challenge for residential type HIGH RISES to offer any real sense of "community" are not unique to those in the Loop / South Loop / West Loop -- if you look at what sorts of buildings in Lincoln Park, Old Town or even the greater Gold Coast have the most vibrant bars / restaurants and grocers it is certainly NOT the existing high rises. Nearly all such places relegate any "retail" to a low visibility corner of the structure, often below grade or on some "mezzanine" that dooms it to serve only those in the know. This of course does NOT to enhance the "pedestrian oriented" feel of the neighborhood BUT there are already so many existing low rise structures that DO rely on the revenue from the street level tenants that there is a MUCH BETTER community feel. My sense is that the sorts of development in the NYC that has happened in Brooklyn and other areas is largely leveraging that sort of a feel vs the more "uptown" isolation of Manhattan... Of course NYC's regulations for things like food carts and other vendors is much less hostile than the kinds of "anti-germ" efforts that Daley the Elder and the Younger both used to sanitize the city and give contracts to their pals who have gotten rich from prominent fixed site concessions -- http://www.aviationpros.com/news/103...acker-at-ohare

[ChicagoMeO]

Chet Everett - one more thing - the Riverwalk is supposed to be getting very vibrant.. and also all those food places open in the Loop during the week, get closed down on weekends, downtown gets deserted in some parts. What saves that part of town are the college students and personell and also the shoppers, but they close up too early and so its not great for fast food restaurants if you live downtown.


it is nice to have a 7-Eleven when you live downtown for some quickie food you ran out of. those might stay open a bit later. West Loop gets that deserted appearance which is why I would hate to live there if I want to run out of Sat night for a fast food restaurant.

[LeotheOrangeCat]

Fulton Market is pretty amazing for restaurants and atmosphere. That's basically the northeast corner of the West Loop.
Although the crowd is young side.

[emathias]

I've lived two blocks south of Chicago/Lasalle for 13 years. When I moved in it was dead quiet most weeknights, with a little action on the weekends. The past year it's been lively every night - more in the weekends, but always lively. And with the coming new construction my particular subsection will be crazy busy 24/7 within the next two years, in my estimation.

There's pluses and minuses to this. We get more businesses to make use of, but the traffic is nuts (and I don't even own a car, but I do take the occasional taxi). And whereas weeknights used to be quiet enough to leave my windows open without fear of drunks waking me up, I'm a lot less likely to leave my windows open at night, or I use a "noise machine" app on my phone to drown out street noise.

River North has become very, very urban, in a modern entertainment sort of way.

Now, during the day, that's a benefit. There are more shops, more things to see. It's a mixed bag - you get and you give. Overall, it's exactly what I hoped would happen when I bought here. I hoped it would get busier, I hoped it would get more lively, I hoped it would get noisier. I'm fine with it. But if you're looking for a "quiet corner of downtown", the NW part of River North is no longer on your list.

[OyCrumbler]

I wonder how much more population downtown would need to add in order for things like the French Market, Revival Food Hall, or even the Federal Plaza Farmer's Market to run some hours on weekends.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

I wonder how much more population downtown would need to add in order for things like the French Market, Revival Food Hall, or even the Federal Plaza Farmer's Market to run some hours on weekends.

I've mentioned in the past that MANY folks who I've seen buy a condo downtown as almost a "vacation home" to enjoy the nice things that the city offers, from music and cultural events to sailing and sports, end up either adapting to the LIFESTYLE of the folks who get accustomed to just sending their dry cleaning to the pricey place on the mezzanine level or ordering hor d'oeuvre trays from the ridiculously expensive in-building caterers OR realizing that they are money ahead staying in a nice hotel room for the few nights that they really don't want to drive back to their lovely suburban home that is just a short commute away...

Currently the hot night spots from River North to Wicker Park and Logan Square do impact the sorts of people willing to deal with the downsides of those areas. Similarly, the Chad's & Trixies that like the more "villagely" feel of Lincoln Park where they can plod around in their yoga clothes and such would start phoning in complaints to the city if the more rowdy crowds disturbed their peace...

The things that make various options for everything connected to the broadest range of "retail", from farmers markets to bars / restaurants to laundromats and dry cleaners, each adopt to the mix of clients that available AND the clients that want / demand specific options in seek out the parts of the region where their needs are met...