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All the years I spent around people who said believers do not sin, I didn't meet one, who had been a believer more than a year, who did not sin after becoming a believer. Still, they said they didn't sin. This has always puzzled me.
I am wondering how many here have not sinned since 11 September 2009?
How many here have not sinned in the last half of a year?
How many here have not sinned in the last quarter of a year?
How many here have not sinned in the last month?
How many here have not sinned in the last week?
My answer to all 5 questions would be, "I have sinned." I am not proud of that. I hate that. But this is the undeniable truth. I am not perfectly sinless.
The grace of God in Christ is enough. Or isn't it?
So then, scgraham, even the "born again" are not safe and secure in God's grace, is that what you are saying? Only those who attain to the state of never sinning will be "saved"? That's comforting!
You must be very confident in yourself - or either continually worried.
Heartsong, until someone is born again they are in their sins. The person that is Born again no longer practices sin. They are a new creature in Christ.
As you know, I'm a universalist. You have to understand that Jesus has ALL Power that includes the power to convert ANY heart (and there is more Glory in turning the hardest hearts). The very purpose (as the scriptures show) that Jesus came was to destroy the works of the devil which is sin. Surely, if we sin then we are children of the Devil and not born again of that Spotless Spirit that is in our Lord. The GOOD NEWS is that eventually all these sins (ALL OF THEM) will have to be ERADICATED at some future point.
That means there will not be a sinner at some point in the future (otherwise the mission of Christ FAILS). That means no sinner in eternal rebellion against God (for that would be sin remaining forever). All SIN will eventually be NO LONGER. We will not be able to find a sinner.
It is wonderful news that God is eradicating sin by means of His Spirit. No where in the Bible is sin ever destroyed but by the giving of the Holy Spirit.
Heartsong, until someone is born again they are in their sins. The person that is Born again no longer practices sin. They are a new creature in Christ.
As you know, I'm a universalist. You have to understand that Jesus has ALL Power that includes the power to convert ANY heart (and there is more Glory in turning the hardest hearts). The very purpose (as the scriptures show) that Jesus came was to destroy the works of the devil which is sin. Surely, if we sin then we are children of the Devil and not born again of that Spotless Spirit that is in our Lord. The GOOD NEWS is that eventually all these sins (ALL OF THEM) will have to be ERADICATED at some future point.
That means there will not be a sinner at some point in the future (otherwise the mission of Christ FAILS). That means no sinner in eternal rebellion against God (for that would be sin remaining forever). All SIN will eventually be NO LONGER. We will not be able to find a sinner.
It is wonderful news that God is eradicating sin by means of His Spirit. No where in the Bible is sin ever destroyed but by the giving of the Holy Spirit.
Peace and hope Heartsong in Christ Jesus.
I disagree ... That of course depends on what you mean by "practice".
So then are you saying Peter was not born again when he preferred the circumcision even though it happened after Pentecost?
He was commanded by God twice already not to do so and he continued to do so.
And Paul said that he himslef was the chief of sinners. Paul Complained about a thorn in his flesh that was a messenger of the devil that he prayed for God to remove from him, but God told him his grace would be enough. If this thorn in the flesh was not some "sin", then what does the grace of God have to do with it?
Being born again mean we are liberated from the bondage of sin, but it does not mean we are no longer mortal. Sin is a part of our mortal flesh, our corrupt bodies. As Paul said, we serve the law of god with our Minds, but we serve the law of sin with our flesh.(Romans 7)
And again Paul wrote that all things are permissible/lawful though not all things are expedient. What does this mean?
To quote Paul(1 Corinthians 10) ... "why should my freedom be judged by another’s conscience?"
Nevertheless i would not want to cause another to stumble.
If you truly believe it is a sin to dance, or drink, or eat certain things, or spit etc., and you do any of those things, then for you it is sin.(Romans 14)
Rom 14:14
I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean.
Peace ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 09-12-2010 at 09:57 AM..
I disagree ... So then are you saying Peter was not born again when he preferred the circumcision even though it happened after Pentecost?
Peter wasn't willfully sinning! People may make mistakes in their walk with God, and the Holy Spirit will correct them. The Lord chastises those who are legitimate children of God.
Hebrews 7
[5] And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Now, if you don't endure God's chastising, then you're not a child of God; you're illegitimate.
Peter wasn't willfully sinning! People may make mistakes in their walk with God, and the Holy Spirit will correct them. The Lord chastises those who are legitimate children of God.
Hebrews 7
[5] And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Now, if you don't endure God's chastising, then you're not a child of God; you're illegitimate.
What do you mean Peter was not willfully sinning? He had already been commanded by God not to do it, and yet he still continued to do it knowing full well that it was wrong, and in front of other new believers. Peter was racist(like most of the Hebrew people were back then), plain and simple.
And Paul himself said he was the chief of sinners.
Paul was referring to his old man who used to persecute Christians. To prove this, Paul said:
1 Corithians 6
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[11] And such were [past tense] some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776
Paul Complained about a thorn in his flesh that was a messenger of the devil that he prayed for God to remove from him, but God told him his grace would be enough. If this thorn in the flesh was not some "sin", then what does the grace of God have to do with it?
The thorn in the flesh was not sickness nor a sin; the messenger of satan [a person] was following Paul around trying to disrupt God's work; Paul wanted the messenger removed, but Jesus said His grace was sufficient. Through this experience, Paul learned how Jesus handled persecutions from the enemy.
Last edited by scgraham; 09-12-2010 at 10:23 AM..
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