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Speaking from the standpoint of His humanity, He could be ignorant of things. In His humanity He had to learn just like anyone else.
Jesus is undiminished deity (John 1:1, 14). But when He became a member of the human race, He voluntarily refrained from the independent function of His divine attributes (Philippians 2:6–8). He didn't use them apart from the Fathers will. (John 4:34; 5:30; 6:38). He demonstrated His omniscience on several occasions as seen in ( John 2:25; Luke 7:38-40). But He refused to use His omniscience independently of those things God the Father wanted Him to know during His time on this earth (John 15:15). Therefore, Jesus refrained from using His omniscience to know the time of His return. Once Jesus had been resurrected, He used His full divine knowledge ( Matthew 28:18; Acts 1:7).
RESPONSE:
So Jesus switched his divinity on and off, you think? Sort of a diminished deity after all?
Then what Jesus taught might really only be human if he didn't have his divinity turned on at the time?
Trying to account for Jesus' errors but claiming he had divine knowledge just doesn't wash. Human nature not withstanding, he would always be divine too.
Last edited by ancient warrior; 10-27-2010 at 06:39 AM..
Reason: typo
No, Jesus did not admit that He wasn't God. The rich young ruler didn't believe that Jesus was God, and so Jesus asked him why he was calling Him good when only God is good. Jesus was getting the youth to focus on who He was.
Jesus declared His deity in John 8:58 compared with Exodus 3:14; John 10:25-38;
And in Revelation 1:8 ''I am the Alpha and the Omega.'' says the Lord God, ''who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.'' COMPARE with Revelation 22:12 ''Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.''
Who is the Alpha and the Omega? The Lord God.
Who is the Alpha and the Omega? Jesus Christ.
Who is Jesus Christ? He is the God-Man. The unique Person of the universe. Undimished deity and true humanity in one Person forevermore.
RESPONSE:
Only in John's Gospel (written 95 -105 AD) is Jesus himself said to be divine. About this time, the Christians were expelled from the Jewish synonages as apostates.
Question: Is it creditable that, if the Christians originally claimed that Jesus was divine (thus there were two Gods), the Jews would have allowed them to remain a sect within orthodox Judaism? Hardly.
Really? Interesting then that the same word is used here:
πρωτότοκον (prōtotokon)
Luke 2:7 καὶ ἔτεκεν τὸν υἱὸν αὐτῆς τὸν πρωτότοκον καὶ ἐσπαργάνωσεν αὐτὸν καὶ ἀνέκλινεν αὐτὸν ἐν φάτνῃ, διότι οὐκ ἦν αὐτοῖς τόπος ἐν τῷ καταλύματι.
She brought forth her firstborn son, and she wrapped him in bands of cloth, and laid him in a feeding trough, because there was no room for them in the inn.
A more honest answer may have been "I believe it means more than that".
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888
Right. No there's misunderstanding. And prototokos doesn't mean firstborn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior
RESPONSE:
From Strong's Concordance:
4416.prototokospro-tot-ok'-os from 4413 and the alternate of 5088; first-born (usually as noun, literally or figuratively):--firstbegotten(-born).
So, have a first-born or first-begotten. Whichever choice made, the parent existed first.
The issue is what prototokos refers to with regard to the deity of Jesus Christ.
The deity of Jesus Christ was never born or created. Jesus Christ as God has always existed. There never was a time when He did not exist.
Prototokos does not in any way mean that the deity of Christ ever had a beginning. It refers to His Pre-existance and his superiority over creation. It refers to His right to first inheritence.
Now read the followng information at these links.
Excerpt:
The “Linguistic Key to the Greek New Testament” by Fritz Reinecker and Cleon Rogers, distills down the scholastic information and says, “The word emphasizes the preexistence and uniqueness of Christ as well as His superiority over creation. The term does not indicate that Christ was a creation or a created being.”(17) Cult Help and Information - Prototokos - It's Meaning and Usage in the New Testament
Excerpt:
In both Greek and Jewish culture, the first-born was the son who had the right of inheritance. He was not necessarily the first one born chronologically Colossians 1:14-16 Commentary
Last edited by Michael Way; 10-27-2010 at 10:14 AM..
Excerpt:[/b]
The “Linguistic Key to the Greek New Testament” by Fritz Reinecker and Cleon Rogers, distills down the scholastic information and says, “The word emphasizes the preexistence and uniqueness of Christ as well as His superiority over creation. The term does not indicate that Christ was a creation or a created being.”(17) Cult Help and Information - Prototokos - It's Meaning and Usage in the New Testament
Excerpt:
In both Greek and Jewish culture, the first-born was the son who had the right of inheritance. He was not necessarily the first one born chronologically Colossians 1:14-16 Commentary
RESPONSE:
Here is no argument that the "builder god" existed before creation. But that's a big difference from being self-existent.
Originally Posted by Mike555 >>No, Jesus did not admit that He wasn't God.<<
RESPONSE:
Prior to John's gospel, written between 95 - 105 AD, did Jesus specifically claim to be divine?
If so, please cite the scriptural passage.
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Only in John's Gospel is Jesus himself divine
