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Dear twin.spin,
The OP is not asking anyone to quote a **translation** that uses "eternal" for aionios. Anyone can do that. It proves nothing.
Can you not follow the request of the OP?
BTW, it is aionion pur (eonian fire) in Matthew 25:41. "Aionion" being an adjective cannot be translated "eternal" because its noun form never means eternal. Only if its noun meant eternity could the adjective tell you the fire was pertaining to eternity. Get it?
Also see what many other Greek scholars say about it. Chapter Eleven
You are calling all of these Greek scholars "deceived."
Yes.
They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt
But what are you credentials for making such a claim?
It's not about me or my credentials.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt
And don't just simply quote me a version of the Bible that has been proven to be mistranslated.
Then don't simply quote a version of someone's knowledge of greek that can just as easily be declared to be wrong. These guys start with an agenda to oppose Jesus. They are nothing more than blinded guides... "always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth." .
Oppose Jesus? Quite the opposite in fact!
We URs are only interested in exalting Jesus as 100% CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin
THE FOLLOWING HAS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE TRUE REGARDING THE DEBATE ABOUT ETERNAL TORMENT
The argument about “eternal hell” nearly always gets bogged down with the words, “My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars,” and the result is nearly always a stalemate.
My Greek scholars are Louis Abbott and the many Greek scholars he quotes in chapters three and twelve of AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS An Analytical Study of Words
twin.spin, if you think it glorifies God more to let some of His creatures suffer forever, or annihilate them, then you keep believing that.
But if you begin to think that it might glorify God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need which is a change in their stubborn will, then know that there is plenty of evidence in the Bible that that is exactly what God is like.
Last edited by rodgertutt; 12-03-2010 at 03:12 PM..
Reason: spacing
Oppose Jesus? Quite the opposite in fact!
We URs are only interested in exalting Jesus as 100%
twin.spin, if you think it glorifies God more to let some of His creatures suffer forever, or annihilate them, then you keep believing that.
But if you begin to think that it might glorify God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need which is a change in their stubborn will, then know that there is plenty of evidence in the Bible that that is exactly what God is like.
Yes, ur theology oppose Jesus. John 3:36
Satan argued "Did God really say" ..and ur makes the same arguments.
Jesus said:
Matthew 25:41-46
ur and Satan argues "really?"
Revelation 20:15
ur and Satan argues "really?"
Revelation 21:27
ur and Satan argues "really?"
John 3:16
ur and Satan argues "really?...
It is however glorifying to witness to the truth, which is what I and many others like me do.
Jesus warnes about being thrown into hell for unbelief. If Jesus would not be loving, he would not have warned.
Last edited by twin.spin; 12-03-2010 at 04:23 PM..
Actually, we URs don't ask the question, "Did God say?"
Intead, on the basis of the evidence available we declare, "God did not say."
So we URs have a Jesus Who, sooner or later, is going to save everyone from everything from which they need to be saved, uncluding their stubborn will.
And you twin.spin have a jesus who is going to let millions of people choose themselves into a inescapable state of everlasting suffering forever (if you are Arminian), or deserve to suffer forever just by being born into the human race totally depraved and not one of the "elect" (if you are Calvinist).
And you claim that we URs are "opposing Jesus."
To paraphrase the words of the Sundance Kid
"You keep thinking that way twin.spin. That's what you're good at!"
Satan argued "Did God really say" ..and ur makes the same arguments.
Jesus said:
Matthew 25:41-46
ur and Satan argues "really?"
Revelation 20:15
ur and Satan argues "really?"
Revelation 21:27
ur and Satan argues "really?"
John 3:16
ur and Satan argues "really?...
Well, I don't know about you, but I think it's interesting that organized religion says that none of us will surely die. You know. The doctrine of the immortal soul? That doctrine has nothing to do with anything in the Old Testament, but Plato and other philosophers were big fans of this doctrine. Actually, so were the Egyptians. Could this eternal torment, immortality, Egyptian religion, sun cult kind of thinking be something that organized religion is a part of without knowing? The whole world is deceived. Not just the atheists, and the agnostics, and the people in the jungles of South America.
I know many verses which organized religion sloughs off, saying, "God didn't really mean that, and that verse just doesn't fit into our creeds." And then they end up writing books trying to explain themselves, or whatever.
Last edited by herefornow; 12-03-2010 at 04:27 PM..
Well, I don't know about you, but I think it's interesting that organized religion says that none of us will surely die. You know. The doctrine of the immortal soul? That doctrine has nothing to do with anything in the Old Testament, but Plato and other philosophers were big fans of this doctrine. Actually, so were the Egyptians. Could this eternal torment, immortality, Egyptian religion, sun cult kind of thinking be something that organized religion is a part of without knowing?
I know many verses which organized religion sloughs off, saying, God didn't really mean that. And then they end up writing books trying to explain themselves, or long essays, or whatever. How about long convoluted sermons where nobody gets to ask any questions? I wonder why that is?
Good questions!
Last edited by rodgertutt; 12-03-2010 at 04:31 PM..
Reason: change
twin.spin,
Why would Satan say that Jesus is all victorious over death, sin and Satan? You teach that Jesus will forever be a failure that sin will never be rooted out of God's universe, thath death will never fully be conquered.
twin.spin,
Why would Satan say that Jesus is all victorious over death, sin and Satan? You teach that Jesus will forever be a failure that sin will never be rooted out of God's universe, that death will never fully be conquered.
Actually, we URs don't ask the question, "Did God say?"
Intead, on the basis of the evidence available we declare, "God did not say."
So we URs have a Jesus Who, sooner or later, is going to save everyone from everything from which they need to be saved, uncluding their stubborn will.
And you twin.spin have a jesus who is going to let millions of people choose themselves into a inescapable state of everlasting suffering forever (if you are Arminian), or deserve to suffer forever just by being born into the human race totally depraved and not one of the "elect" (if you are Calvinist).
And you claim that we URs are "opposing Jesus."
To paraphrase the words of the Sundance Kid
"You keep thinking that way twin.spin. That's what you're good at!"
For the record I'm neither Arminian or Calvinist (or for that matter until CD never was called a ET)
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And you claim that we URs are "opposing Jesus."
Yes UR theology does ... sooner or later it will become apparent when you see Jesus as Judge sending those on his left to hell for their unbelief Matthew 25:41.
Yes UR theology does ... sooner or later it will become apparent when:
Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Yes UR theology does ... sooner or later it will become apparent when:
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”
Yes UR theology does ... sooner or later it will become apparent when:
For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
Yes UR theology does ... it removes the necessary requirement for belief in Jesus before death. That in any language is the lie from Satan.
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"My Greek scholars are more reliable than yours"
Knowing the real jesus
