How do you interpret/balance these verses? (crucified, testimony, saved)

[pcamps]

I give up with you trettep. If you think the purpose of removing the beam from our eye is to remove the speck of dust in our brothers eye and not solely because we are down right plain hypocrits for beholding a speck of dust in our brothers eye in the first place, you are sorely missing what Jesus is saying.

I'm not sure if you know this trettep, because i do not know if you are one who has had a beam in your eye,let me tell you it's very humbling and painful with it too, when God makes known to you your hypocrisy, you become far more prone to judging yourself and less inclined to look upon the speck of dust in your brothers eye, you end up seeing God in him instead.

[Heartsong]

Originally Posted by trettep

Is Jesus able to "Judge another"? If so, can you show where it says that He can "Judge another"?

Actually Jesus said he did not judge another nor did he judge the world. He left judgment to the Father. But the scriptures say that because he was obedient unto death that he has inherited all things.

What is your point in this discussion, Trettep? If you're asking if I think it is right for you or me to go around judging people, the answer is no, I don't think it is right nor is it scriptural to desire to be the judge. The scriptures explain that our vision is limited and that we can often only see the outward appearance of things but God sees the whole picture.

I'll give you an example that happened in real life. A neighbor of mine was judged and shunned by his Baptist church because he was seen having a beer at lunch in a bar. They passed judgment on him and tried to shame him. That brother left the church and never went back. I don't blame him. Why would he want to fellowship with people who treated him that way? That is just one example of zillions of these types of wrong judgments that go on in the world. There are people of every stripe of Christianity whose mission is apparently to look down on others, to find fault with others, to condemn others. That is not what love does. Love endures all things, believes all things, hopes all things. Love does not keep a record of wrongs, and it certainly doesn't set out to find errors and mis-steps.

[pcamps]

You obviously do judge others trettep, you justify it by calling it righteous judgement, like some who condemn others because of sin,excuse their own sin by saying it's commited in ignorance and not wilful.

Can you give an example of how you have judged another ?. No problem if you can't.

[trettep]

Originally Posted by pcamps

I give up with you trettep. If you think the purpose of removing the beam from our eye is to remove the speck of dust in our brothers eye and not solely because we are down right plain hypocrits for beholding a speck of dust in our brothers eye in the first place, you are sorely missing what Jesus is saying.

I'm not sure if you know this trettep, because i do not know if you are one who has had a beam in your eye,let me tell you it's very humbling and painful with it too, when God makes known to you your hypocrisy, you become far more prone to judging yourself and less inclined to look upon the speck of dust in your brothers eye, you end up seeing God in him instead.

Let me ask you this, is the person with a beam removed from their eye still a hypocrite if they then attempt to remove the mote from their brother's eye?

[trettep]

Originally Posted by Heartsong

Actually Jesus said he did not judge another nor did he judge the world. He left judgment to the Father. But the scriptures say that because he was obedient unto death that he has inherited all things.

What is your point in this discussion, Trettep? If you're asking if I think it is right for you or me to go around judging people, the answer is no, I don't think it is right nor is it scriptural to desire to be the judge. The scriptures explain that our vision is limited and that we can often only see the outward appearance of things but God sees the whole picture.

I'll give you an example that happened in real life. A neighbor of mine was judged and shunned by his Baptist church because he was seen having a beer at lunch in a bar. They passed judgment on him and tried to shame him. That brother left the church and never went back. I don't blame him. Why would he want to fellowship with people who treated him that way? That is just one example of zillions of these types of wrong judgments that go on in the world. There are people of every stripe of Christianity whose mission is apparently to look down on others, to find fault with others, to condemn others. That is not what love does. Love endures all things, believes all things, hopes all things. Love does not keep a record of wrongs, and it certainly doesn't set out to find errors and mis-steps.

So give me an example of judging another that is wrong. Is it wrong to point out another's faults?

[Heartsong]

Originally Posted by trettep

Let me ask you this, is the person with a beam removed from their eye still a hypocrite if they then attempt to remove the mote from their brother's eye?

Probably so.

[Heartsong]

Originally Posted by trettep

So give me an example of judging another that is wrong. Is it wrong to point out another's faults?

What do you think? You must decide for yourself whether or not you think it is wrong to point out people's faults. I think it is sometimes necessary to point out people's faults, but not something we should be anxious to do. It is a very bad trait to find joy in detecting other people's faults, but you see plenty of Christians doing that very thing, and it does not glorify God. And of course unless we have a close, intimate relationship with a person, they are not going to receive correction from us, so it is a futile and even hurtful practice to go about finding fault with others.

[trettep]

Originally Posted by pcamps

You obviously do judge others trettep, you justify it by calling it righteous judgement, like some who condemn others because of sin,excuse their own sin by saying it's commited in ignorance and not wilful.

Can you give an example of how you have judged another ?. No problem if you can't.

Sure I Judge others.

Sure I can give you all kinds of example of righteous judgement I have exercised. I have helped my children from getting burned, have helped them from falling down, I have helped them from being bullys, have helped them from suicide, helped them from many other issues. This all starts with me telling them their fault most of the time and then how to fix it. I can do so because I'm not in the same fault. They can learn from me because I have learned to overcome those obstacles.

Now if I go to my child and I say smoking is bad for you - your doing something wrong by smoking and yet I smoke also, then I'm not judging righteously.

[trettep]

Originally Posted by Heartsong

Probably so.

But the very reason that Jesus told them to remove the beam from their eye was so that they wouldn't be a hypocrite. So Jesus instruction would be in vain if that was the case.

Mat 7:5 Hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then thou shalt see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

If they would still be a hypocrite even after the beam was removed then why wouuld Jesus then say they "shalt see clearly"?

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by trettep

Let me ask you this, is the person with a beam removed from their eye still a hypocrite if they then attempt to remove the mote from their brother's eye?

Yes if he persists in beholding the speck of dust in his brothers eye, he's still a hypocrite.You are misinterpreting what Jesus said by going to remove a speck of dust in your brothers eye. Do you realize how hard it is to see a speck of dust in your brothers eye ? , you really need to be looking for it to find it .

I don't believe you have ever had a beam in your eye trettep.You do not talk like a man that has If you had you would know the humbling experience along with the pain of discovering the beam. Like i have already said to you when you are humbled because of the pride in your heart, you are far more prone to judging yourself and less inclined to look upon the speck of dust in your brothers eye, instead you see God in him.