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Old 07-13-2011, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,199,780 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If you will not listen to the truth then continue on with your false beliefs.
Your truth...sure...not mine. I listened to that truth for years, and as I investigated the scripture, holy, that is, from Paul exhortation, I came to realize your "truth" was false and an invention of man post apostolic, I discarded it. Mike, because of your insistance on "truth" God help us, there will be nothing left of the church in 100 years.
Need not worry folks, Preterism will fix the faults of those such as Mike.

Quote:
This may be my final post on this thread, though not neccesarily. If I find it useful to do so, I will post again. I refer readers back to my previous posts #27, 36, 41, 57, and 62.
Thank goodness!
Mike, the ONLY thing we agree on is the deity of Christ, and I commend you for that particular work, and I can only pray for your deliverance from the toxic "truth" you uphold.
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Old 07-13-2011, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
4,770 posts, read 5,136,488 times
Reputation: 2924
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Your truth...sure...not mine. I listened to that truth for years, and as I investigated the scripture, holy, that is, from Paul exhortation, I came to realize your "truth" was false and an invention of man post apostolic, I discarded it. Mike, because of your insistance on "truth" God help us, there will be nothing left of the church in 100 years.
Need not worry folks, Preterism will fix the faults of those such as Mike.



Thank goodness!
Mike, the ONLY thing we agree on is the deity of Christ, and I commend you for that particular work, and I can only pray for your deliverance from the toxic "truth" you uphold.
I have read the entire thread. What is toxic about anything Mike has upheld here in his posts? Sorry, I don't see anything TOXIC. I am sure Mike555 and I would have areas of scripture where we wouldn't see eye to eye, but all in all he has presented his bilblical stances with clarity yet with simple truth. What is toxic about anything he has said?

On the flip side, sciotamicks, what is there in your Preterism that is so all enlightening and freeing? Sorry, but from your posts I don't see anything freeing or enlightening. Your sarcastic tone toward Mike is not very becoming either. You fill your posts with scriptures and lines of thought that lead in circles, you repeat yourself, you contradict yourself. It sounds scholarly but it is a load of rubbish when one tries to make any logical sense out of it.

I had never heard of preterism before visiting this site, but, sorry to say preterism is not attractive by what you or others are proposing it to be from what I have read on this site. Will stick to the "toxic" freedom found in solid biblical scholarship that has "duped" the church for the last 2000 years but can't sustain it for another 100 years apparently.
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Old 07-14-2011, 01:02 AM
 
7,301 posts, read 2,484,847 times
Reputation: 614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
I have read the entire thread.
And you believe Hell, Satan, and Lucifer to be in accordance with the principles of logic, predicated on the other posters assumptions?
Or that of your own?
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Old 07-14-2011, 02:28 AM
 
Location: US
10,068 posts, read 3,749,393 times
Reputation: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Never heard of Hawyaw before. The knowledge of the truth of God produces life and peace. But the knowledge of sin and death brings sorrow.

In fact, to be distressed in a godly way causes people to change the way they think and act and leads them to be saved. No one can regret that. But the distress that the world causes brings only death. - 2Cor. 7:10
I notice young Christians seem to be the happiest because they have not gone to far in aquiring knowledge yet, they haven't come to see how messed up the world really is yet...Ignorance is bliss?...
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Old 07-14-2011, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
4,770 posts, read 5,136,488 times
Reputation: 2924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
And you believe Hell, Satan, and Lucifer to be in accordance with the principles of logic, predicated on the other posters assumptions?
Or that of your own?
Jesus himself referred to Satan as a personal eternal entity in the gospels. Jesus' scripture was the Hebrew text, his understanding of Satan and Hell would come from the Scripture available in his day along with his own eternal viewpoint. To assume anything other than Jesus' view on who and what Satan is is utter lunacy, especially for anyone claiming belief in the deity of Christ.

I am sorry I do not understand the history of Preterism, but from what I am gleaning of its message from posters on this site, I don't need to know anything else. It is obvious from reading the posts here that it is not a belief system that someone hidden away on another planet all his life with no knowledge of the history of mankind, the scriptures and church history and theology would come up with after a simple reading and understanding of scripture. It is a man made belief system built by people with some hurt or trauma or other major dissatisfaction with some form of organized Christianity looking at scriptures with an agenda trying to prove that agenda by picking and nitpicking scripture to support said agenda while tossing major chunks of scripture out the window. I don't have to know what Preterism is to see that.
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Old 07-14-2011, 03:01 AM
 
Location: US
10,068 posts, read 3,749,393 times
Reputation: 475
Joh 6:44 No manG3762 canG1410 comeG2064 toG4314 me,G3165 exceptG3362 theG3588 FatherG3962 which hath sentG3992 meG3165 drawG1670 him:G846 andG2532 IG1473 will raise him upG450 G846 at theG3588 lastG2078 day.G2250

G1670
ελκύω, ελκω
helkuō helkō
hel-koo'-o, hel'-ko
Probably akin to G138; to drag (literally or figuratively): - draw. Compare G1667.
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Old 07-14-2011, 04:54 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,966 posts, read 2,852,113 times
Reputation: 1517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I notice young Christians seem to be the happiest because they have not gone to far in aquiring knowledge yet, they haven't come to see how messed up the world really is yet...Ignorance is bliss?...
Really? Well, yes, I think the older we get, the more cynical we become. I'm 48 and pretty cynical about the world. But I'm not cynical about God. There is a lot of really horrific stuff going on around the globe though, much of it hidden from the eyes of average Americans who rely on corporate news sources for their information.
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,199,780 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
Jesus himself referred to Satan as a personal eternal entity in the gospels.
Where?

Quote:
Jesus' scripture was the Hebrew text
It was the Greek LXX most likely.

Quote:
To assume anything other than Jesus' view on who and what Satan is is utter lunacy, especially for anyone claiming belief in the deity of Christ.
How so?

Quote:
I am sorry I do not understand the history of Preterism
It dates back to the 2nd century.

Quote:
It is a man made belief system built by people
Like the rapture?

Saintmarks,

Mike and I agree on some pionts, but he is a dispensationalist and futurist. I am his antagonist. When he tells me I don't accept the truth, that is his viewpoint. I tell him his truth is not my truth. Which is being more "forceful"....him or me?

Mike has not supplied much, but rhetoric, or be it that, words or thoughts without much scriptural support. I have proved, my truth, with much exegesis. We are both done proving our pint to each other. Mike utilized Preterism as his offense to disprove me, derailing the thread, as always, to promote his agenda. Fine. I defended Preterism, yet, I have gone round and round with him about it. He is an old man, and changing his mind is far from going to happen. That is ok. THis does not bother me. What does bother me is the new Christian coming here wanting to know the truth. Many truths are abound at this forum, and it is up to that new and searching person to discern this.

God sends everyone that doesn't believe in Him to hell.
This is the literal approach that was produced just after the 5th century. The translations of the king james and ownards reflected these doctrines. The translation was INFLUENCED by this. The early church fathers (3rd century onwards), were "amillennial" or otherwise, Partial Preterists as we know of today.

Post apocalyptic (70 AD) fathers (i.e. Barnabas and 1 Clement) were mostly Preterists and some Amillennial.

Hell, as we understand it in the 21st century, according to the ancient world, did not exist. It was called Hades, a netherworld that held "unconscious" righteous and unrighteous. It was a take off from Sheol (Hebrew) when Hellenism infected 2nd Temple Judaism, which was basically, the dust beneath the earth where the soul slept and awaited resurrection. This concept was the only concept in the ancient world. Hell never was a issue as we know of today. Mike does not understand this because he is embedded in man made doctrine that began to surface during the 5th-6th centuries.
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Old 07-14-2011, 09:47 AM
 
Location: US
10,068 posts, read 3,749,393 times
Reputation: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
Jesus himself referred to Satan as a personal eternal entity in the gospels. Jesus' scripture was the Hebrew text, his understanding of Satan and Hell would come from the Scripture available in his day along with his own eternal viewpoint. To assume anything other than Jesus' view on who and what Satan is is utter lunacy, especially for anyone claiming belief in the deity of Christ.

I am sorry I do not understand the history of Preterism, but from what I am gleaning of its message from posters on this site, I don't need to know anything else. It is obvious from reading the posts here that it is not a belief system that someone hidden away on another planet all his life with no knowledge of the history of mankind, the scriptures and church history and theology would come up with after a simple reading and understanding of scripture. It is a man made belief system built by people with some hurt or trauma or other major dissatisfaction with some form of organized Christianity looking at scriptures with an agenda trying to prove that agenda by picking and nitpicking scripture to support said agenda while tossing major chunks of scripture out the window. I don't have to know what Preterism is to see that.
Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Pro 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
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Old 07-14-2011, 09:52 AM
 
Location: US
10,068 posts, read 3,749,393 times
Reputation: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Really? Well, yes, I think the older we get, the more cynical we become. I'm 48 and pretty cynical about the world. But I'm not cynical about God. There is a lot of really horrific stuff going on around the globe though, much of it hidden from the eyes of average Americans who rely on corporate news sources for their information.
You have missed my point...
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