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Let first say this to you Finn,both Kat and i were talking about being punished twice for the same sin commited, which you are a believer in,and you need to bear this in mind when i said unequivocally "Yes" to you.
We reap what we sow in this life,scripture is absolutely clear upon this. To even think that we would reap again that which we have already reaped,is immoral,unjust and ludicrous you're worst enemy would not dream of doing this, what have you turned our heavenly Father into ?.
Whatever needs to be done the other side of the grave is not punishment how the carnal mind believes, but correction.Those who are going to need the most correction, are those who have shown the least love,grace and mercy in their lives,can you imagine the pain and anguish felt when they realize that whoever they witheld the full extent of his love,grace and mercy , they were actually withholding it from God himself.
Let me tell you something that happened just a couple of weeks ago.
A guy who i know made a mistake with the task he was given at his job,his boss seeing the mistake went mad at him , the guy apologized and said i will do much better next time(what he had done wrong was no big deal), this happened first thing in the morning. Now remember the guy bore the wrath of his boss for his mistake,but at the end of the day his boss came back and lost it, he was now more mad than he was in the morning over the same mistake. This is how fundamental Christianity presents our Heavenly Father.
There is one thing certain, you cannot show the love,grace and mercy of God towards the world believing what you do, all you can do is show your own,which is conditional.
The world system is more just than that of the mind of the christian fundamentalist, i have never heard of the world system punishing a man again, by putting a man back into jail after he has served is time.
So, you did not understand the question. Is that what happened? It was a very simple question: Are you now are saying the only punishment there ever will be, is right here on earth?
And after I had asked you this question many times, you finally said "YES"
By saying YES, you said the only punishement there ever will be is right here on earth. That would mean there is nothing after death.
However, now you are saying that the punishment is EITHER here OR after death. And you add that "we reap what we sow in this life", and I suppose you mean that sometimes we reap it here, and sometimes we reap on the other side. Right?
Corrective chastisement will be over by the time the age that follows the Great White Throne Judgment has ended. By then, everyone will have been saved from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.
THE BOTTOM LINE
Sooner or later the sinners of Matthew 25:46, and all other sinners as well, will be saved from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.
We know this because God will have (wants if you like) all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of Hiswill” (Ephesians 1:11)
Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants if you like.
Because God says
"My counsel shall stand. I will do all my pleasure
(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11
Job 23:13 “But he stands alone, and who can oppose him? He does whatever he pleases.
(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him)
Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)
So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.
His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.
His will = What He wants
What does He want?
THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND
Why will it happen? Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.
Any cooperation towards our salvation is the result, not the cause of God laying hold on us by His saving grace and causing Jesus to be choice in our heart, just like it was in the case of Lydia and Saul of Tarsus.
A snippet from THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – LOYAL F. HURLEY
“Only as one sees God’s Plan of the Ages do they see the beauty of God’s Program for the redemption of the race. Heb. 11:3 should read, “Through faith we understand that the ages were planned by the Word of God.”
The ages will collectively end. A literal translation of Heb. 9:26 is, ‘But now, once for all, with a view to the end of the ages, has He been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.’
Throughout the eons there is sin and evil, condemnation and death. At the end of the eons all will be justified (Rom. 5:18,19), and all will be reconciled through Christ’s blood (Col. 1:20).
When you perceive the truth concerning the ages your Bible will become a new and more wonderful book than you knew you had.”
The opinions of exactly how God will achieve universal salvation may differ from UR to UR just like, as Bright Hope pointed out, the opinions of ETers also vary from person to person about what the Bible teaches about salvation.
So, you did not understand the question. Is that what happened? It was a very simple question: Are you now are saying the only punishment there ever will be, is right here on earth?
And after I had asked you this question many times, you finally said "YES"
By saying YES, you said the only punishement there ever will be is right here on earth. That would mean there is nothing after death.
However, now you are saying that the punishment is EITHER here OR after death. And you add that "we reap what we sow in this life", and I suppose you mean that sometimes we reap it here, and sometimes we reap on the other side. Right?
If you actually read my posts Finn Jarber you will see i have consistently said that we reap what we sow in this life, and we will not be punished by the law of reaping and sowing again at some further date.I will never give you the satisfaction of referring to correction as punishment, until you understand that God corrects us to better us, not to punish us. I believe you are sold out to this doctrine,because you fear it.
Regarding anything reaped on the otherside of the grave, will be corrective, for all just forms of chastisement are so,corrective by the word of God(fire). God does all things by His Word.
Jesus Christ was forever correcting those who thought they knew, and instructing those who really didn't know.
If you actually read my posts Finn Jarber you will see i have consistently said that we reap what we sow in this life, and we will not be punished by the law of reaping and sowing again at some further date.
So, when you say there is concequence for sin, you mean you pay the concequence in this life, and there is nothing unpleasant on the other side of the grave? Maybe some correction, and education, but nothing to worry about. Right? This is what I am trying to understand.
Quote:
I believe you are sold out to this doctrine,because you fear it.
So, when you say there is concequence for sin, you mean you pay the concequence in this life, and there is nothing unpleasant on the other side of the grave? Maybe some correction, and education, but nothing to worry about. Right? This is what I am trying to understand.
Eeeehhh..no, I have nothing to fear.
Finn let me just say this to you, i do not make such a huge deal of sin as you do,this is why you are all about judgement, punishment and eternal hell, because all this exists in your thought life,and consequently you are in fear.The bottom line is you want people to know they will be punished for not believing in Jesus, this is your motive behind your posts and why i resist everything you say.
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear hasto do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love
. Do you want to drive the fear anyone may have, out of them ?, then preach the love of God, because it drives out fear,you are using fear to try and supress the love of God.
So, when you say there is concequence for sin, you mean you pay the concequence in this life, and there is nothing unpleasant on the other side of the grave? Maybe some correction, and education, but nothing to worry about. Right? This is what I am trying to understand.
Eeeehhh..no, I have nothing to fear.
You have no fear of friend or loved one not making it? Eternity is a long time to suffer.
Finn let me just say this to you, i do not make such a huge deal of sin as you do,this is why you are all about judgement, punishment and eternal hell, because all this exists in your thought life,and consequently you are in fear.The bottom line is you want people to know they will be punished for not believing in Jesus, this is your motive behind your posts and why i resist everything you say.
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear hasto do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love
. Do you want to drive the fear anyone may have, out of them ?, then preach the love of God, because it drives out fear,you are using fear to try and supress the love of God.
That does not answer the question. It is ok to say "I really don't know" when you don't know.
That does not answer the question. It is ok to say "I really don't know" when you don't know.
I have already said to you Finn, when you actually answer a question the lake of fire will freeze over. Like post 298
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The duration of kolasis aionion
