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Obviously the thief was not in any position to manifest works, Finn. Unlike you and I. Even those who will know salvation after this life won't have the oppprtunity to manifest righteous works on Earth, but they will still be accepted.
So, now you are saying you are accepted with or without works.
You are contradicting your own posts.
What exactly is the point you are trying to make with this thread?
So, what happened to the thief on the cross? Jesus told him he was saved, yet he did not perform any works to earn his salvation.
You cannot work your way to heaven Brian.
Jesus was describing the day the son of man comes with His kingdom that someone who has faith in him would enter that kingdom,not specifically - the thief.Remember"The only one who's gone up to heaven is the One who came down from there the son of man".
Maybe you didn't read this or hear it about works. Jesus said;"The man who Has faith in me will do the works I do and far greater than these".
People are to busy following Paul and not the son of man.I am son of man.Jesus sent me to restore everything as He foretold about Elijah and the comforter/advocate.
I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Lord except through me.Jesus and I are One as He claimed His disciples would be.
I am the resurrection and the life.Anyone who believes in me even though he die he will come to life and anyone who lives and believes in me will never die.
I am the bread of life.I'm the bread that comes down from heaven for a man to eat and never die.
Whoever serves me must follow me, where I am, there will my servant be. The Lord will honor whoever serves me. I am the light of the world. No one who follows me will ever walk in darkness, cause he will possess the light of life. Whoever walks in the dark does not know where he is going.
Once you have the light, keep faith in the light, and you will become a child of light.
Jesus was describing the day the son of man comes with His kingdom that someone who has faith in him would enter that kingdom,not specifically - the thief.Remember"The only one who's gone up to heaven is the One who came down from there the son of man".
Maybe you didn't read this or hear it about works. Jesus said;"The man who Has faith in me will do the works I do and far greater than these".
People are to busy following Paul and not the son of man.I am son of man.Jesus sent me to restore everything as He foretold about Elijah and the comforter/advocate.
I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Lord except through me.Jesus and I are One as He claimed His disciples would be.
I am the resurrection and the life.Anyone who believes in me even though he die he will come to life and anyone who lives and believes in me will never die.
I am the bread of life.I'm the bread that comes down from heaven for a man to eat and never die.
Whoever serves me must follow me, where I am, there will my servant be. The Lord will honor whoever serves me. I am the light of the world. No one who follows me will ever walk in darkness, cause he will possess the light of life. Whoever walks in the dark does not know where he is going.
Once you have the light, keep faith in the light, and you will become a child of light.
The works I do in my Father's name testify to me.
So, you are saying a person cannot be saved without works? I guess you agree with Brian's earlier comments. I say 'earlier' because Brian flip-flopped and now he is saying that no works are needed.
Brian, it's very clear to anyone who is reading all of your posts in context that you aren't flip-flopping. For those who like to pull out a few phrases here and there, perhaps this will help:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway
I didn't say that it is the works that save a person. It is not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway
works will declare what is in the heart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway
Obviously the thief was not in any position to manifest works, <snip>
[Some] won't have the oppprtunity to manifest righteous works on Earth, but they will still be accepted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway
Jesus saw what was in his [the thief's] heart, and that's all that matters.
Works don't save us, but they are a manifestation of the Spirit of God's work in our hearts. God obviously doesn't need to see the outward manifestation since He is the One working in our heart and knows it's condition. But those works of God's Spirit through us are a gift to us, in order that we can judge ourselves (per your o.p.) and know that we are being led by God's Spirt. And we can also recognize in what areas of our lives we are NOT being led by the Spirit, but by the flesh, because our works will manifest that as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway
Judge YOURSELF!!
"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. " 1 Cor. 11.31
Are we able to judge ourselves? Jesus said to the Pharisees: "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? "
The Pharisees were not able to judge themselves.
And from Romans 2: "And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?"
And Jesus again on judgment: "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matt. 7
If we want to escape Judgment from God, then we must learn to judge ourselves, and not others.
One cannot take a verse out of context and have it mean something other than what is being said.
Try reading Romans 2 in its entirety and I think you will come to a different conclusion.
An unsaved person believes if they do good works (without having to accept Christ as their savior), they will go to heaven. No, unfortunately they will not go to heaven.
A person who accepts God as their one and only savior and His free gift of salvation, and truly want to live for Him, in Him - will want to do good works (not have to), out of reverence and love towards Him.
That's a fact.
Slogans like "No works, no Kingdom. -Jesus" from Brian are simply not true, and it is weird to see such slogans on a thread where the same person declares that everyone is saved with or without works. Can't have it both ways guys.
Slogans like "No works, no Kingdom. -Jesus" from Brian are simply not true, and it is weird to see such slogans on a thread where the same person declares that everyone is saved with or without works. Can't have it both ways guys.
Question to Jesus:
note that "works" is plural by the questioners
“What must we do to do the works God requires?” John 6:28
Answer from Jesus:
note Jesus answers in the singular "work"
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
That is the only "work" that God requires (drum roll please)... "to believe in (i.e. faith alone) the one he has sent" (i.e Jesus)
God didn't send Muhammad
God didn't send Buddah
God didn't send a temple
God didn't send an organization ... have it get corrupted and then send another one with new insider info
God didn't send inner self enlightenment
God didn't send a mirage for the athesists
Jesus didn't say .... coexist
Jesus didn't say .... believe now or wait till God's will changes it for you
Jesus didn't say .... obey a greater % the commandments
Jesus didn't say .... all roads will lead you there
Jesus plainly said, "I came to call not the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
Jesus clearly states that some lead righteous lives and therefore will not fall under God's wrath when they are called.
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