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This is exactly my point! How sad that religious fundamentalists insist on denying that it's human nature to want and need intimacy. The Catholic church tried that and look at the mess they're in.
I know for a fact that each of my daughters have experinced intimacy. At the very least, they have done so fully understanding the risks thereof. At least they know enough to avoid getting pregnant. If it happens to them now, at least they are well outside of their teen years.
This was one subject in our house which was not going to get sugar coated. In our house there was none of that. . ."God said it, I believe it, so therefore you must do it." NO! We chose to inform our daughters, point out a few of their pregnant friends as living examples of what their lives could potentially turn into, and then give them the freedom to make choices of their own.
Today, I often praise each of my daughters for having made it to this point of their lives without being pregnant out of wedlock. In this day and age, this is an acheivement and cause for celebration. They have made me extremely proud.
I read somewhere within the past year that children raised in extremely strict, religiously fundamental homes are at almost the same risk for teen pregnancy and drug use as children in other "high risk" homes.
Human were built to start procreating in their teens. Only in rather recent history has it changed where we need so much education that we have to put off marriage for many years. So it's a fight against biology really.
This is exactly my point! How sad that religious fundamentalists insist on denying that it's human nature to want and need intimacy. The Catholic church tried that and look at the mess they're in.
I know for a fact that each of my daughters have experinced intimacy. At the very least, they have done so fully understanding the risks thereof. At least they know enough to avoid getting pregnant. If it happens to them now, at least they are well outside of their teen years.
This was one subject in our house which was not going to get sugar coated. In our house there was none of that. . ."God said it, I believe it, so therefore you must do it." NO! We chose to inform our daughters, point out a few of their pregnant friends as living examples of what their lives could potentially turn into, and then give them the freedom to make choices of their own.
Today, I often praise each of my daughters for having made it to this point of their lives without being pregnant out of wedlock. In this day and age, this is an acheivement and cause for celebration. They have made me extremely proud.
Who are religious fundamentalists? I agree that it's human nature to want and need intimacy. It's also human nature to want money and luxurious things, but at some point we have to have self control. I can tell you almost anybody, on this earth, no matter what they believe in, wants money. You go out into the street and give someone $100 with no strings attached and they will take it. But the thing about money, if we have it, we still have to use it in the right way in order to survive. We cannot spend money how we want to just because we desire it. In this society we still have bills to pay, we still have to pay for the things we desire like food, clothing, and a home, and we have to pay our taxes. If we do not use money in the right way and show some self control of how we spend it, the results could be disastrous. Sex is no different.
Okay so your daughters have experienced intimacy but they know the risks. Well what happens if they do indeed get pregnant? There is no full proof way of avoiding pregnancy. Even the best condoms have a margin of error, other medicinal contraception have flaws with them especially if they are physical ones like a Merina or a Nuvaring. So if they still get pregnant then what will happen? Can you guarantee that the father of the child will take responsibility for his actions and step up and be a father? Can you guarantee that your daughter and that man will be together for the rest of their lives to see that child and possible other children to be raised?
You mentioned that at least they are of age. There are many kids who live in broken homes, whether they have a teenage or adult single parent, and they often struggle with psychological issues because of the absence of a family structure around. It is true that there are exceptions but a child having both their parents to raise them is the highest percentage way of making sure that that child grows up healthy.
And again it doesn't have to be broken down as, well God said... Yes it is true that God says these things but it can be applied on a practical level as I have already mentioned. If you have a hard time answer some of the questions I just asked then that is a start for the reasoning why this is an important practice.
But if I may take a step back for a second, I'm reading through these responses and I just sense this huge insecurity. I mean what exactly is the point of this thread? You want to show people that Catholicism and other mindless religious practices do not actually teach you how to avoid sex before marriage? Okay it is true that there is something very flawed with these teachings and it is evident but if you are looking for someone to pat you on the back and tell you yeah chacho_keva, you are teaching your daughter right, then you have bigger issues than just your daughters having sex. If you had a bad experience with church then I can't say I would disagree with your feelings about how flawed the teachings have become, but this does not represent the church in it's totality. It seems as though you are looking for someone to assure you that you are doing the right thing by going away from biblical teaching, you won't get that assurance from me. There are a lot of churches that are teaching young people how to avoid having sex before marriage and presenting scripture that is represents some of the issues of today, but you have to get out and find those places. Coming on an internet forum is not going to make what you do feel anymore right.
I read somewhere within the past year that children raised in extremely strict, religiously fundamental homes are at almost the same risk for teen pregnancy and drug use as children in other "high risk" homes.
Human were built to start procreating in their teens. Only in rather recent history has it changed where we need so much education that we have to put off marriage for many years. So it's a fight against biology really.
Again, I strongly agree with the above underlined/highlighted statement. In the very last church I attended, there was a woman whom was a single mother of two teenage boys. Most likely, because there was no male role model, the mother was unusually strict with her two boys. She allowed them minimal contact with so-called "non-believers." They attended church 3X's/week. The boys had very little outlets aside from the extreme church life.
The last thing I heard about the boys was that they were both encarcerated.
This is exactly my point! How sad that religious fundamentalists insist on denying that it's human nature to want and need intimacy. The Catholic church tried that and look at the mess they're in.
The orthodox teaching of the Catholic Church would indeed disagree with you and consider your instructions sinful. The Church certainly does not deny that a desire for intimacy, including sexual intimacy, is a part of human nature; quite the opposite; Catholics believe that humans were designed by God to desire sex in order to reproduce and ensure the survival of the human race. However, as a result of original sin, this desire (as well as all desires) often conflicts with right reason, hence lust. As sex was instituted for the continuance of the race, and optimal child raising normally only occurs in a stable relationship, sealed by marriage, fornication is sinful, even when contraceptives are used, which are also sinful, as they impede the procreative nature of the act.
For an eminent Catholic moral theologian's viewpoint on your stance towards your daughters, see this:
It's actually quite simple. A combination of a sex-saturated culture that actually ostracizes virginity with unrealistically late marriage ages (it's much easier to "save yourself for marriage" when everybody's marrying in their early 20s, as was the case in the 1950's) and a relatively long period in between house leaving and marriage (this seems to have a big effect as well) makes waiting (much less staying chaste) incredibly difficult, though not impossible. If any or all of these factors were taken out, remaining a virgin until marriage would be much easier, but still somewhat difficult.
I am not 100% sure I agree with this. When I lived in Arkansas, most people married between ages of 18 and 22. I was 23 when I left, and felt very out of place not being married, so the early marriages still apply in some parts of the country. That said, everybody was having sex before marriage and there was a very high rate of teen pregnancy. Some high schools had to have day cares for the children, and this is in deep red state America, where if you aren't married by 22 there is something wrong with you.
The real reason abstinence has gone the way of the dodo is our sex-saturated culture. Everything on TV, the radio, in movies, is all about sex. Peer pressure has a lot to do with it too - i.e. if you want to lose all your friends if you are a high school guy, admit to your friends you are a virgin.
Okay so your daughters have experienced intimacy but they know the risks. Well what happens if they do indeed get pregnant? There is no full proof way of avoiding pregnancy. Even the best condoms have a margin of error, other medicinal contraception have flaws with them especially if they are physical ones like a Merina or a Nuvaring. So if they still get pregnant then what will happen? Can you guarantee that the father of the child will take responsibility for his actions and step up and be a father? Can you guarantee that your daughter and that man will be together for the rest of their lives to see that child and possible other children to be raised?
You mentioned that at least they are of age. There are many kids who live in broken homes, whether they have a teenage or adult single parent, and they often struggle with psychological issues because of the absence of a family structure around. It is true that there are exceptions but a child having both their parents to raise them is the highest percentage way of making sure that that child grows up healthy.
And again it doesn't have to be broken down as, well God said... Yes it is true that God says these things but it can be applied on a practical level as I have already mentioned. If you have a hard time answer some of the questions I just asked then that is a start for the reasoning why this is an important practice.
But if I may take a step back for a second, I'm reading through these responses and I just sense this huge insecurity. I mean what exactly is the point of this thread? You want to show people that Catholicism and other mindless religious practices do not actually teach you how to avoid sex before marriage? Okay it is true that there is something very flawed with these teachings and it is evident but if you are looking for someone to pat you on the back and tell you yeah chacho_keva, you are teaching your daughter right, then you have bigger issues than just your daughters having sex. If you had a bad experience with church then I can't say I would disagree with your feelings about how flawed the teachings have become, but this does not represent the church in it's totality. It seems as though you are looking for someone to assure you that you are doing the right thing by going away from biblical teaching, you won't get that assurance from me. There are a lot of churches that are teaching young people how to avoid having sex before marriage and presenting scripture that is represents some of the issues of today, but you have to get out and find those places. Coming on an internet forum is not going to make what you do feel anymore right.
Guess what buddy, my daughters DIDN'T get pregnant during their teen years!
They are now full fledged independent adults, each pursuing their careers of choice. They are outgoing, confident women whom, on their own, have chosen not to become single mothers during this crucial period of their lives.
Church or no church, this is what my children chose to do. Scripture was never smeared on their faces. What they did or did not do was their own doing. I greatly applaud their wise decisions.
Guess what buddy, my daughters DIDN'T get pregnant during their teen years!
They are now full fledged independent adults, each pursuing their careers of choice. They are outgoing, confident women whom, on their own, have chosen not to become single mothers during this crucial period of their lives.
Church or no church, this is what my children chose to do. Scripture was never smeared on their faces. What they did or did not do was their own doing. I greatly applaud their wise decisions.
And they're probably not active in a church, are they?
Guess what buddy, my daughters DIDN'T get pregnant during their teen years!
They are now full fledged independent adults, each pursuing their careers of choice. They are outgoing, confident women whom, on their own, have chosen not to become single mothers during this crucial period of their lives.
Church or no church, this is what my children chose to do. Scripture was never smeared on their faces. What they did or did not do was their own doing. I greatly applaud their wise decisions.
I echo your applause, but it includes a round or two for Mom and Dad. Seems you two can take a bow as well.
People today are inundated by a thousand daily digital/media/social network information sources declaring that any/all forms of abstinence or self-control/responsibility are outdated and impossible; that homosexuality is the 'New Normal'; that abortion is legal, therefore it must be 'right'; that it is absurd and ridiculous to restrict or limit one's self from anything that 'feels good;' that divorce is the only solution if a couple is 'unhappy;' that pornography of all types is only an expression of 'free speech'; ... that the Bible and God are archaic and meaningless and need to get more realistic in light of 'today's modern standards'.
God better get a good advertising agency and a web site ... or he'll soon be out of a job!
Anyone who thinks that word applies needs to check out their family tree. Where they will find out that grandma, who went to church every Sunday and knew her Bible by heart, got married seven months before her first child arrived. The 9 pound "premature" bouncing baby boy.
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