Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
He meant it when He said it to her...that her sins were indeed forgiven, and the rest of scripture clearly explains HOW! one can and WILL! lose their salvation if they die in their sins! Read the BIBLE with eyes and heart wide open! for God's sake!
Psalms 119:155 STATES! Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statutes.
SALVATION IS FAR FROM THE WICKED!
SALVATION IS FAR FROM THE WICKED!
NOT ADDRESSED TO WILLFULL SINNERS!
Romans 1: 1Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6Among whom are ye (who? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS!) also the called of Jesus Christ:
7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you (who? THE BELOVED OF GOD. CALLED TO BE SAINTS!) and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you (who? THE BELOVED OF GODCALLED TO BE SAINTS!) all, that your (who's? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS!) faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
9For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you (who? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTD!) always in my prayers;
10Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you (who? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS!).
11For I long to see you (WHO? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS!), that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
12That is, that I may be comforted together with you (who? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS!) by the mutual faith both of you and me.
13Now I would not have you (who? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS!) ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you (who? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS!), (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you (who? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS!) also, even as among other Gentiles.
14I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
15So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you (who? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS!) that are at Rome also.
16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
NONE OF THESE ABOVE HIGHLIGHTED IN BLUE!!! IF THEY DIE IN THEIR INIQUITIES!!! WILL RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE!!! AND ALL THE SCRIPTURE THAT YOU PARROT WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING, WHEN THEY SPEAK OF TO WHOM! WILL RECEIVE THEIR SALVATION, WILL ONLY! BE THOSE WHO ARE THE BELOVED OF GOD...THE CALLED!!! OF GOD, WHO ARE CALLED TO BE SAINTS!!!...WHO ARE OBEDIENT TO HIS COMMANDS!!! WILL SEE THEIR SALVATION AND RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE!!!
AND IF!!! THOSE WHO ARE THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS, TURN AWAY FROM THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND COMMIT WILLFULL SIN, THEY ARE LOST FOREVER!!! THUS SAITH THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY!!! IT IS WRITTEN!!!
Love,
Verna.
Quote:
AND IF!!! THOSE WHO ARE THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS, TURN AWAY FROM THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND COMMIT WILLFULL SIN, THEY ARE LOST FOREVER!!! THUS SAITH THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY!!! IT IS WRITTEN!!!
Let me say first I haven't read this entire thread so if this has already been stated I apologize.
Verna, you say theres no chance for a believer who's 'fallen' or committed wilful sin to come back to the Father; right?
To that I say: have you not read the story of the prodical son? Doesn't this sound like wilful sin?
Luke 15:11-13
11 ¶ And he said, A certain man had two sons:
12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
And yet what did the father do when his son returned? Did he say, "Get away from me; you have sinned wilfully and you are lost for ever!"
No...
Luke 15:18-24
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: 24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry
*10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
This one of those verses theologians use for their reformation arguments of faith vs. works. (when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail)
Can you explain Finn?
Isn't this about work's? - "the fire will test the quality of each person’s work."
What do you think this is telling us about works?
What do you think this is telling us about salvation?
Tell us your definition of "works". Do you think adultery is a work?
What is this fire? Is it representative of judgment?
Do you have a Bible with marginal references? Did you look at any of the references in regards to 1 Cor 3:15?
(Ezekiel 3:19)
Yet if you have warned the wicked and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered yourself. (NASB)
An example of a work that was unproductive and "burned up", yet had no influence on the salvation on the one doing the work.
This verse is about works not a statement about the requirements for salvation. It is telling us that the failure of works cannot be detrimental to our salivation.
It does NOT say salvation cannot be lost for any reason. Even if you interpret this meaning because your OSAS bias, the WORDS in this scripture do not support that interpretation.
Has anyone who is oppose this "one strike and youre out" idea (which I think is well beyond absurd) mentioned 1 corinthians 5:1-5 yet? Paul offers the possibility of the christian offender who committed adultery against his father as well as incest saved again in the end after being cast out.
Let me say first I haven't read this entire thread so if this has already been stated I apologize.
Verna, you say theres no chance for a believer who's 'fallen' or committed wilful sin to come back to the Father; right?
To that I say: have you not read the story of the prodical son? Doesn't this sound like wilful sin?
Luke 15:11-13
11 ¶ And he said, A certain man had two sons:
12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
And yet what did the father do when his son returned? Did he say, "Get away from me; you have sinned wilfully and you are lost for ever!"
No...
Luke 15:18-24
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: 24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry
This one of those verses theologians use for their reformation arguments of faith vs. works. (when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail)
Can you explain Finn?
Isn't this about work's? - "the fire will test the quality of each person’s work."
What do you think this is telling us about works?
What do you think this is telling us about salvation?
It specifically says the builder has not lost his/her salvation even if there are no works, or if the works were worthless.
Has anyone who is oppose this "one strike and youre out" idea (which I think is well beyond absurd) mentioned 1 corinthians 5:1-5 yet? Paul offers the possibility of the christian offender who committed adultery against his father as well as incest saved again in the end after being cast out.
Indeed, much like in Ezekiel, which Verna quotes, the sinner will have to pay a price (while living), but his sould is still eternally saved.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 12-04-2011 at 10:23 AM..
Quote:
AND IF!!! THOSE WHO ARE THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS, TURN AWAY FROM THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND COMMIT WILLFULL SIN, THEY ARE LOST FOREVER!!! THUS SAITH THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY!!! IT IS WRITTEN!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
Let me say first I haven't read this entire thread so if this has already been stated I apologize.
Oh believe me, it has already been stated...just in different words......no apology necessary though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
Verna, you say theres no chance for a believer who's 'fallen' or committed wilful sin to come back to the Father; right?
God's says it mshipmate, I'm only the messenger...God's word says:
Ezekiel 18: 24 "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
To that I say: have you not read the story of the prodical son? Doesn't this sound like wilful sin?
Sure I have.
First, remember that God's word does not contradict Himself, so obviously, He isn't going to tell us in one passage,that, "If the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and then die in them; for his iniquty that he hath done...HE SHALL DIE.", and then tell us the opposite in another passage.
When you read scripture mshipmate, to understand and prove what is the truth, you must compare the passages...line upon line...precept upon precept...comparing spiritual things with spiritual things...
Isaiah 28:9 "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:..."
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
Luke 15:11-13
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
11 ¶ And he said, A certain man had two sons:
12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
The son starts out here dead in his sin...unrepented...child of the devil, not of God.
Here the younger son wanted his own way, to be his own "god." His desire was to be independant of his father...spiritually...this shows the desire of his heart was to be independant of God. He was against God...and against Heaven.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
..and his journey began - far from God, as he squandered away everything he had...even the grace he had received.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
And yet what did the father do when his son returned? Did he say, "Get away from me; you have sinned wilfully and you are lost for ever!"
No...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
Luke 15:18-24
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
...and here we have the beginning of true repentance!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
"And he arose and came to his father" - Repentance! Turning away fro his sin and receiving his Father in Heaven! While he was far off, his father saw him - returning!...starved!...naked! but neverthe less, his Father was faithful to receive him and his pure repentant, contrite heart
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
The expression of serious, heartfelt joy !
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry
Amen! His son was no longer dead in his sin! He repented and returned to His Father and was received with great celebration!
Thank you for these passages mshipmate, it shows very clearly the process of going from a willfull, prideful, wicked sinner...unto Godly sorrow, a contrite heart, a confession of sins..true! repentant child of God, born of God! \o/ Awesome scripture!
God Bless you!
Verna.
Last edited by Verna Perry; 12-04-2011 at 10:39 AM..
Has anyone who is oppose this "one strike and youre out" idea (which I think is well beyond absurd) mentioned 1 corinthians 5:1-5 yet? Paul offers the possibility of the christian offender who committed adultery against his father as well as incest saved again in the end after being cast out.
They were not born of God yet when they committed this willfull sin. They were not repentant yet. They were without God here.
When they repented of their sins and turned away from them, they were forgiven of them.
You're back! Surprise! Surprise! I thought you said you were going to just "watch" and "draw your own conclusions"...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrhockney
I see, it appears you're using the old "I'll just let scripture speak for me and if you can't understand it the way I do, you don't have the Holy Spirit!" way of evangelism. You're quoting Old Testament on an issue that is alot more New Covenant oriented and you didn't really answer my question...meh, you don't have to. I'll just watch this fascinating exchange and come to my own conclusions
The son starts out here dead in his sin...unrepented...child of the devil, not of God.
If the son was the child of the devil, then obviously the father would have to be the devil, but that is not the case, as the father in the story is God. Lost son, lost coin, lost sheep are all the same.
Let me say first I haven't read this entire thread so if this has already been stated I apologize.
Verna, you say theres no chance for a believer who's 'fallen' or committed wilful sin to come back to the Father; right?
To that I say: have you not read the story of the prodical son? Doesn't this sound like wilful sin?
Luke 15:11-13
11 ¶ And he said, A certain man had two sons:
12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
And yet what did the father do when his son returned? Did he say, "Get away from me; you have sinned wilfully and you are lost for ever!"
No...
Luke 15:18-24
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: 24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Well said.
No. Not well said. It just tickles your ears and makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside...but it is being mis-interpreted! and mis-understood!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
...no apology necessary though.
Surprise! Surprise! I thought you said you were going to just "watch" and "draw your own conclusions"... 
