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My point is not moot Verna, if your salvation is not secure, then you have nothing to say to me that gives me any security, even if you are correct, you are unable to tell me how to avoid damnation because you are not secure yourself.
You're struggling Phaze...I see it...and it is good. God's word gives you no security because you reject it...I have given His truth to you and you just do not reach out to grasp it because it goes against what you want to believe, which is a lie.
I am assured of this one thing....the hope I have in Jesus Christ. It is all that I need to keep me in His love...and I do wish with all of my heart that you had what I have Phaze...and I mean that.
2 Thessalonians 2:16 May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, Hebrews 3:6 But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast. Hebrews 6:19 We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, James 1:18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created. 1 Peter 1:13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. 1 Peter 1:21 Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God. 1 Peter 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
May God bless you with the Spirit of Understanding...the Spirit of Knowledge...and the Spirit of isdom to live His truth out in your lives...and believe and love Him by keeping His commandments...faithfully.
[b]Love,Verna.
That is one of the problems, claiming and posting scripture to say you yourself are saved and the requirments for it doesn't mean you have discerned it correctly, especially so, if there is a chance based on your fallible nature as a human that you haven't perceived or interpreted it correctly.
People besides yourself, will believe as you do, that your salvation is not secure, yet when asked what it takes to be saved, they will give a different answer than you.
You can tell someone else that you hope for understanding, because you are claiming they do not have understanding while you can't say you have it yourself with any proof.
When in the past you believed differently and would of said the same thing. You must of not had understanding then, while believing you did.
That is why any belief that anyone can be eternally separated from God, can't actually demonstrate with any certainty that they have defined how.
That is another reason why God assures it for everyone, because he is not the author of such confusion that I just spoke of.
Nice try at analyzing my mental state over the internet, but you fail.
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God's word gives you no security because you reject it.
That is fine as long as you know that if you died right now you can't know if you will be with God. As long as you admit to that, then at least you are consistant with your beliefs, and not a hypocrite. I can respect a difference of beliefs under those circumstances.
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..I have given His truth to you
Yeah, like I said, when you believed differently, you would of said the same thing.
Finn,
I rejoice that you and I are apart of the elect. Believe it or not, I frequently console myself with those exact verses because of the very nature that dwells in me of every moment of every day. If it were not for this message, I would be in terrible shape.
But it's that other evil nature that wars against me. That nature loves to rationalize sin away (or at least minimize it). That is why for the warnings of losing the faith which is found in scriptures. It's not an issue of God not knowing the original Greek enough when he attempts to phrase it in various ways... :
God says... this should be obvious enough
"He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior."
the OSAS respose: well .... God let me tell you what that really means
So it's like God says... OK, lets put it this way:
And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father,...If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.
the OSAS respose: well God.... Solomon was never a believer to begin with
So it's like God says... OK, you still insist on OSAS? lets put it this way:
If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit;
the OSAS respose: well God.... I can explain that one away, you don't mean that.
God says... OK, do you have a problem with "endure"
if we endure, we will also reign with him.
the OSAS respose: well God.... haven't you attempted to understand what I've been saying
OK, do you have a problem with "disown"
If we disown him, he will also disown us
the OSAS respose: well God.... look. You can repeat yourself all you want, when are you going to start understand that no matter how you phrase it ... it's irrelevent.
OK, just how many ways can I phrase it ... would "endurance and remain faithful" work for you?
This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God’s commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
the OSAS respose: Look God, I have defined it to what it suppose to mean and I can pit you against yourself if need be.
Now if you don't realize that my understanding is superior...just wait till the UR folk come around. ........but don't worry, I'll stick up for you when they start with their UR word game rabbit hole routine
OK ... just one last time. How about "remove" ?
If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.
the OSAS respose: You can not. otherwise I'm calling you for what you are ...a liar.
OH R E A L L Y ...... I'm the liar now if you don't see it my way. hmmmmmm
I don't know why you think that a person who believes one cannot lose salvation is somehow less obedient and faithful.
Actually it is not clear, that is why in the realm of those who do not believe salvation is secure there is disagreement about what it takes to be saved.
If you have to choose of your own will to live a certain way to be saved, then it is up to you. You will have to interpret scripture in order to see what those requirements are. In your fallible state, you cannot with absolute certainty say you have got it right.
But you certainly can rest in the comfort of what you tell yourself.
I believe we differ on some basic points and that is the reason for the difference of confidence. You are right, my confidence level is not 100% but it is not 50% either. I do not worry, I study to address that area of doubt.
I do not "interpret" the Bible, I study it. That is why when I hear some theology being presented I can evaluate it with high level of confidence.
When inquiring about it you should see that it is consistent with the Bible. For instance, when asked about Galatians 5:4 and how the OSAS belief understands it, we see the answers given were not consistent with the Bible. Their explanation ignored the well established definitions of the original Koine Greek and asserted there were concepts present that were clearly not in the text or surrounding context. At this point I do not dismiss the Bible in favor OSAS "interpretations"
I take my relationship with God seriously and have been studying for many years. The Bible is consistent and clear. It is not written in a mysterious theological language filled with allegory that must be interpreted.
I rely on the Bible and therefore their is no fear for my salvation.
Actually right at this moment, you believe you are secure, if you was asked if you died right now would you be with God what will your answer be, Yes, no or I am not sure?
If your salvation is not secure you cannot accuratly answer yes.
If I died right now, I know I will stand before Jesus my King...my Redeemer...my Savior...my Righteous Judge, with my head up, my shoulders squared (if in fact I could stand at all...which I am not quite sure of...with such an awesome God before me...I may tremble from weak knees and fall with arms lifted in praise and worship to my King whom I have waited to see, face to face, for so long now......), and with eyes locked onto His beautiful eyes...with confidence...instead of shame, knowing in my heart, that He knows that I lived for Him, I glorified His holy Name with my life, and did my very best to warn everyone He put in my path to turn away from their iniquities and live their lives according to His word...that I truly love my brothers and my sisters in Christ Jesus. He knows my heart...and He will know.
I believe we differ on some basic points and that is the reason for the difference of confidence. You are right, my confidence level is not 100% but it is not 50% either. I do not worry, I study to address that area of doubt.
The percentage leveL of your confidence is irrelevant to the issue if it is not 100%, if you are not 100% certain, then if you died right now, you cannot tell someone that you know you will be with God. That is the plain truth of it whether you want to admit it or not.
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I do not "interpret" the Bible, I study it. That is why when I hear some theology being presented I can evaluate it with high level of confidence.
Semantics, you study it so that you can feel confident you have the right interpretation.
Your studys do not necessarily mean you have gained the correct knowledge from it.
Last edited by Phazelwood; 12-01-2011 at 11:00 AM..
I don't know why you think that a person who believes one cannot lose salvation is somehow less obedient and faithful.
I didn't do that to say it's a matter of being less obedient and faithful.
The entire exchange was to get you to see that (though eternal security is taught) OSAS is not.
If I died right now, I know I will stand before Jesus my King...my Redeemer...my Savior...my Righteous Judge, with my head up, my shoulders squared (if in fact I could stand at all...which I am not quite sure of...with such an awesome God before me...I may tremble from weak knees and fall with arms lifted in praise and worship to my King whom I have waited to see, face to face, for so long now......), and with eyes locked onto His beautiful eyes...with confidence...instead of shame, knowing in my heart, that He knows that I lived for Him, I glorified His holy Name with my life, and did my very best to warn everyone He put in my path to turn away from their iniquities and live their lives according to His word...that I truly love my brothers and my sisters in Christ Jesus. He knows my heart...and He will know.
Blessings.
So now you are saying your salvation is secure if you died right now. But earlier you said you never claimed to be secure.
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...), and with eyes locked onto His beautiful eyes...with confidence...instead of shame, knowing in my heart, that He knows that I lived for Him, I glorified His holy Name with my life, and did my very best to warn everyone He put in my path to turn away from their iniquities and live their lives according to His word...that I truly love my brothers and my sisters in Christ Jesus. He knows my heart...and He will know.