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There is no such ethereal church as you claim. This is a figment of your imagination. I suspect you cling to that concept because it makes you feel better about the total disarray in the protestant community on things as basic as justification. Your so called "church" is just rationalization of the issue you are willing to ignore. And that is, if you really seek the truth, you have to come to the conclusion that only one church is right. Now, clearly I think it's the Catholic Church or I wouldn't be posting this, but for the sake of argument, if not the Catholic Church, what church then? And please refrain from this fuzzy non-entity you call "the church". It is fiction. There is a church that Jesus created. A real and tangible Church. It's not 33,000 churches who don't agree with each other. That's why they exist as separate entities. Because they disagree with on another on not just peripheral items, but core essential salvation items.
Getting the truth from Christ's Church is paramount. So, which church?
If you want to have a serious discussion you need to drop that 33k denomination argument. It's weak. It makes you look like you have no idea what you're talking about.
Having said that, a simple comparison of the RCC's doctrines and scripture leads to all sorts of problems--starting with Soteriology.
If you want to start with a serious discussion, let's begin with that. Are we saved by infused or imputed righteousness? Your church teaches infused. The Bible teaches imputed righteousness.
There is no such ethereal church as you claim. This is a figment of your imagination. I suspect you cling to that concept because it makes you feel better about the total disarray in the protestant community on things as basic as justification. Your so called "church" is just rationalization of the issue you are willing to ignore. And that is, if you really seek the truth, you have to come to the conclusion that only one church is right. Now, clearly I think it's the Catholic Church or I wouldn't be posting this, but for the sake of argument, if not the Catholic Church, what church then? And please refrain from this fuzzy non-entity you call "the church". It is fiction. There is a church that Jesus created. A real and tangible Church. It's not 33,000 churches who don't agree with each other. That's why they exist as separate entities. Because they disagree with on another on not just peripheral items, but core essential salvation items.
Getting the truth from Christ's Church is paramount. So, which church?
I'll take you back to my original question pertaining to the Eastern Orthodox Church. You yourself claim both the RCC and EOC hold apostolic authority. Yet both churches differ in some fundamentally significant ways. Both also claim to be the original church which holds correct belief about all things pertaining to the faith. So before you start asking about which of these thousands of churches is the right one, you need to figure out which church is right between the RCC and EOC. I might note that for the past 1000 years, not even those two churches have been able to settle their differences.
There is no such ethereal church as you claim. This is a figment of your imagination. I suspect you cling to that concept because it makes you feel better about the total disarray in the protestant community on things as basic as justification. Your so called "church" is just rationalization of the issue you are willing to ignore. And that is, if you really seek the truth, you have to come to the conclusion that only one church is right. Now, clearly I think it's the Catholic Church or I wouldn't be posting this, but for the sake of argument, if not the Catholic Church, what church then? And please refrain from this fuzzy non-entity you call "the church". It is fiction. There is a church that Jesus created. A real and tangible Church. It's not 33,000 churches who don't agree with each other. That's why they exist as separate entities. Because they disagree with on another on not just peripheral items, but core essential salvation items.
Getting the truth from Christ's Church is paramount. So, which church?
You must have missed this...it is written!!!!!!!!!!!!!!............
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry
Help me Jesus...
First of all, the Catholic Church is not Christ's Church any more than the Baptist...Methodist...Church of God...Luthern...or any other so called "church" is...none of them are the Church of God in Christ Jesus!
Now that we got that straight, let's learn together who God's Church truly is!...which are those who believe, and live, in the will of God in their lives!
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
Revelations 5:9 And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.
Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Revelation 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
1 Corinthians 3:16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?
2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."
Galatians 2:9 James, Peter and John, those reputed to bepillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the Jews.
Ephesians 2 :21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
1 Timothy 3:5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?)
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."
Hebrews 3:6 But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast.
Hebrews 10:21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God,
>>>>>>> 1 Peter 2:5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. <<<<<<<
>>>>>>> 1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: <<<<<<<
Romans 1:7 To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose
...and on and on and on it is written throughout the entire Bible.
Now you know who the true church of God in Christ IS!
Thus saith the LORD God Almighty!!!!! \o/ A M E N ! ! !
There is no such ethereal church as you claim. This is a figment of your imagination. I suspect you cling to that concept because it makes you feel better about the total disarray in the protestant community on things as basic as justification.
I have no problem with the fact that there are Christians in many different denominations. I'm currently interviewing for a position in an Evangelical Free church, as well as a Bible Church. They are certainly compatible doctrinally. The major differences are only in structure. The Bible church is independent and you'd probably call it one of your 33k "denominations". It's a simple fact that a large percentage of those 33k "denominations" are largely a bunch of independent churches.
Quote:
Your so called "church" is just rationalization of the issue you are willing to ignore. And that is, if you really seek the truth, you have to come to the conclusion that only one church is right.
Whatever. It's not like your "church" is any more united. My family "church shopped" as catholics when I was growing up. Several of them in my town differed drastically.
Quote:
Now, clearly I think it's the Catholic Church or I wouldn't be posting this, but for the sake of argument, if not the Catholic Church, what church then? And please refrain from this fuzzy non-entity you call "the church". It is fiction. There is a church that Jesus created. A real and tangible Church. It's not 33,000 churches who don't agree with each other. That's why they exist as separate entities. Because they disagree with on another on not just peripheral items, but core essential salvation items.
Getting the truth from Christ's Church is paramount. So, which church?
Unfortunately the "church" you claim that Jesus founded didn't stick to the "Gospel" that Jesus gave us.
Nevermind the fact that the guy you claim as pope didn't seem to agree with his supposed title.
Unity in Christ Church is One believer at a time as One heart , one Christian, One Lord, One Baptism , One faith in Christ Church ....See It is the Lord that created many church in this age as One church has to many controls and the tower of babel had , But antichrist help create many churches and Jesus inherited them.....BUT Jesus expects His Children to obey His commands as to Love the Lord and Love Your neighbor as yourself which also means to love the brothers and sister in Christ of the church and other Churches and to support them which the living waters that Jesus gives through prayer..... In the plan of Jesus there will come a time when all the churches will be absorbed into one Church of Christ and all the denominations will be Gone , By this antichrist will not be able to corrupt the church because divisions will be gone , so antichrist will be the dreadful judge as Jesus will then have to remove .....
I agree that Jesus Christ did establish His Church and that He always intended that there be "one Lord, one faith, and one baptism." Numerous different denominations, all teaching different things, cannot all be "the Church" He established. As to which of all the Churches now on the earth is the one He established (or even if said Church exists today) is a matter of opinion. I'm pretty sure that nobody on this forum thinks he belongs to a church that is not "true." That's kind of a no-brainer.
I believe the church is not a building, not a doctrine, not a sect and not with a "head" that is a human and not the rituals and rules and burdens of man..
Christ is the head of the church and those who believe on Him are members. Yes, I believe with all my heart and soul there are members in the Catholic church, the Baptist, the Pentacostal, etc,etc,etc..God places the members wherever he desires their gifts to be used..Man's church is not important to God..Christ's Church (His Bride) is
Christ did not "establish" a church. He was, is the church..
Of course this is only my own humble opinion...again
First of all, the Catholic Church is not Christ's Church any more than the Baptist...Methodist...Church of God...Luthern...or any other so called "church" is...none of them are the Church of God in Christ Jesus!
Now that we got that straight, let's learn together who God's Church truly is!...which are those who believe, and live, in the will of God in their lives!
Now you know who the true church of God in Christ IS!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoGeek
There is one church. It's spread across many groups of Christians that all agree on the essentials. People in the the roman catholic church, ironically, may or may not be among them due to its apostate teachings on things like Soteriology. You guys would do well to study the book that was written to the church in Rome.
You guys place way too much emphasis on pedigree. Remember what Jesus said to the Pharisees that felt smug about being "children of Abraham"? You're not saved according to what group you belong to--it's what you DO with Jesus.
I agree with you both, Verna and Theo . . . the ethereal church as GTBH calls it IS the only real church of Jesus Christ. How anyone could read the history and ongoing corruption (and continuing corruption) of the RCC and possibly believe it has anything to do with God or Jesus Christ is beyond me . . . of course the hierarchies of most churches are guilty of the same corruption. That is why Jesus forbade hierarchy. What we DO following Christ's commands to "love God and each other" makes us Christians and part of Christ's church, period.
First of all, the Catholic Church is not Christ's Church any more than the Baptist...Methodist...Church of God...Luthern...or any other so called "church" is...none of them are the Church of God in Christ Jesus!
Now that we got that straight, let's learn together who God's Church truly is!...which are those who believe, and live, in the will of God in their lives!
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
Revelations 5:9 And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.
Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Revelation 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
1 Corinthians 3:16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?
2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."
Galatians 2:9 James, Peter and John, those reputed to bepillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the Jews.
Ephesians 2 :21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
1 Timothy 3:5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?)
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."
Hebrews 3:6 But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast.
Hebrews 10:21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God,
>>>>>>> 1 Peter 2:5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. <<<<<<<
>>>>>>> 1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: <<<<<<<
Romans 1:7 To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose
...and on and on and on it is written throughout the entire Bible.
Now you know who the true church of God in Christ IS!
Quick question, which Church gave you the Bible? Which Church was the original Church, without which you wouldn't know what Christianity is? Also, do you believe Christ gave us one church, or 1,000?
I believe the church is not a building, not a doctrine, not a sect and not with a "head" that is a human and not the rituals and rules and burdens of man..
Christ is the head of the church and those who believe on Him are members. Yes, I believe with all my heart and soul there are members in the Catholic church, the Baptist, the Pentacostal, etc,etc,etc..God places the members wherever he desires their gifts to be used..Man's church is not important to God..Christ's Church (His Bride) is
Christ did not "establish" a church. He was, is the church..
Of course this is only my own humble opinion...again
Quote:
13h When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi* he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14i They replied, “Some say John the Baptist,* others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16*j Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood* has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. 18k And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,* and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. 19lI will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.* Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
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...again
