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Yes there is only one Church...MINE!!! Now accept everything my church and denomination says or BURN FOREVA!!!
...Actually I have a feeling that having multiple churches with multiple non-essential doctrines was apart of God's plan to some degree as a way to bring in more people. I think the core essentials mostly make up "the Church" through multiple denominations. Sadly, I'm sure many denominations would disagree what the essentials are.
Quick question, which Church gave you the Bible? Which Church was the original Church, without which you wouldn't know what Christianity is? Also, do you believe Christ gave us one church, or 1,000?
Actually, the Catholic Church didn't introduce me to the truth about Jesus Christ. It was my aunt, who belonged to a non-denominational Bible church, who introduced me to the truth about why Jesus died for us on the cross. Without her, I seriously don't know if I would have learned the gospel or not. The RCC expects people to come to them rather than them go to the people. They don't stand on corners preaching the word. They don't go door to door sharing the gospel.
I'll likewise refer you back to what I said in post #12. As for the scripture you referenced, perhaps you could also research the EOC's position on the papacy.
The bible speaks of two different types of "churches", the visable church found in various cities founded primarily by Paul, the other is the invisable "true Christian Church".
The visable has:
" false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom " Galatians 2:4
" just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies" 2 Peter 2:1
humans can't see into the heart, so we do not know who truly is
The true Christian Church is spiritual:
is only known by God 1 Corinthians 8:3
from the first to last is declared righteous by faith apart from works Romans 4:6
has no false teachers, the wicked will not be among it
it is of these believers that " In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord."
I believe the church is not a building, not a doctrine, not a sect and not with a "head" that is a human and not the rituals and rules and burdens of man..
Christ is the head of the church and those who believe on Him are members. Yes, I believe with all my heart and soul there are members in the Catholic church, the Baptist, the Pentacostal, etc,etc,etc..God places the members wherever he desires their gifts to be used..Man's church is not important to God..Christ's Church (His Bride) is
Christ did not "establish" a church. He was, is the church..
Of course this is only my own humble opinion...again
Your own humble opinion is right on, as usual Miss Blue.
I think there is an ethereal church. But I don't want to argue with you. I just wanted to note here that the front runner in the G.O.P. - the Newt is a Catholic. Interesting times we live in.
Yes, and while that is important to me, it's Newt's stand on the issues that is more important. And I just don't trust folks with perfect hair, so Romney is out. lol.
Don't forget Rick Santorum is Catholic, too. The last elected and only Catholic president was John F. Kennedy.
If you want to have a serious discussion you need to drop that 33k denomination argument. It's weak. It makes you look like you have no idea what you're talking about.
Having said that, a simple comparison of the RCC's doctrines and scripture leads to all sorts of problems--starting with Soteriology.
If you want to start with a serious discussion, let's begin with that. Are we saved by infused or imputed righteousness? Your church teaches infused. The Bible teaches imputed righteousness.
It's not weak at all. It clearly links that when you put biblical interpretation in the hands of individuals, chaos ensues. And the cause of all this chaos is sola scriptura. Your position of individual interpretation is indefensible and the evidence of it's falseness is everywhere. You just have to look at this forum and this thread. It's a fact that you choose to ignore because it keeps you protected and feeling in charge. You can throw big words at me and think you are brilliant, or maybe a greek word, but the fact remains that Jesus clearly wanted one Church. So what are you doing about keeping to the prayers and wishes of Jesus Christ?
I'll take you back to my original question pertaining to the Eastern Orthodox Church. You yourself claim both the RCC and EOC hold apostolic authority. Yet both churches differ in some fundamentally significant ways. Both also claim to be the original church which holds correct belief about all things pertaining to the faith. So before you start asking about which of these thousands of churches is the right one, you need to figure out which church is right between the RCC and EOC. I might note that for the past 1000 years, not even those two churches have been able to settle their differences.
Here's some text that was written about 800 years before the Orthodox Churches broke from Rome.
St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book III, Chapter 3, Verse 2, ~190 A.D.:
2. Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.
That pretty much settles it for me. In addition, I read that the Orthodox trace themselves back to Paul and the Apostles. Funny, they either exclude Peter or place Peter lower in authority than Paul. It was PETER who was clearly given the keys (Authority) in Matthew 16:13-19. Peter was the Vicar of Rome. The Catholic Church was based in Rome. It was the orthodox churches that left, not the other around. I know they will disagree, but the Early Church Fathers all understood that the one holy and apostolic church was based in Rome. The Catholic Church is based in Rome. I go to the Catholic Church.
Here's some text that was written about 800 years before the Orthodox Churches broke from Rome.
St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book III, Chapter 3, Verse 2, ~190 A.D.:
2. Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.
That pretty much settles it for me. In addition, I read that the Orthodox trace themselves back to Paul and the Apostles. Funny, they either exclude Peter or place Peter lower in authority than Paul. It was PETER who was clearly given the keys (Authority) in Matthew 16:13-19. Peter was the Vicar of Rome. The Catholic Church was based in Rome. It was the orthodox churches that left, not the other around. I know they will disagree, but the Early Church Fathers all understood that the one holy and apostolic church was based in Rome. The Catholic Church is based in Rome. I go to the Catholic Church.
...written by St. Uraneous...and you settle for that over what God has spoken through the Holy Spirit in His very word!...INcredible ! ! ! Rediculous. I'm done with this junk.
...written by St. Uraneous...and you settle for that over what God has spoken through the Holy Spirit in His very word!...INcredible ! ! ! Rediculous. I'm done with this junk.
Nothing St Ireneus says disagrees with orthodox doctrine or Sacred Tradition. The writings of the new testament at this time is scattered and not assembled. The bible says to hold fast to the traditions whether by word or by letter. So what's your problem? I believe St. Irenaeus was taught by Polycarp who was taught by the Apostle John. St. Irenaeus was defending YOUR faith from the Gnostics. You should be thanking him. Without St. Irenaeus, you might be a Gnostic.
Who were you taught by? You think you know more than these fellows?
Your done with this "junk" because apparently you feel that you have lost the argument. I understand it is painful, but maybe when the pain subsides, you can open your heart and really take a look at what the Early Church Fathers believed and see if your beliefs line up with theirs. They all preceded the Bible.
Last edited by GoodToBeHome; 12-14-2011 at 12:03 AM..
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...again
