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No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. (John 1:18)
Who is God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, referring to??
Jesus Christ
RESPONSE:
When the Gospel we call John's was written, after 95 AD, a theology had developed which made Jesus divine himself in addition to being the Messiah.
Note that the earlier written synoptic gospels and Acts of the Apostles don't report any "I am" saying.
Jesus, original followers remained a very orthodox sect with conventional Judaism believing in the the Shema "Hear O Israel, the Lord is One." (not two)
Acts 2:22-24
"You that are Israelites,* listen to what I have to say: Jesus of Nazareth,*a man attested to you by God with deeds of power, wonders, and signs that God did through him among you, as you yourselves know— 23this man, handed over to you according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of those outside the law. 24But God raised him up, having freed him from death,* because it was impossible for him to be held in its power.
Jesus, being only a man (or messiah), none of these were done by him but rather by the power of God. Or so it was believed in 80 AD when Acts was written.
Once they started saying that Jesus was God, the Christians were anathmatized from the Jewish synagogues as apostates. Even the gospel we call John's refers to this exclusion.
Last edited by ancient warrior; 03-10-2012 at 12:06 PM..
Reason: typo
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. (John 1:18)
Who is God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, referring to??
Jesus Christ
Why are there translations that read the above, when in the Greek, theos is used for "No one has ever seen God", but it is NOT used for "but God the One and Only"? The proper translation is "No one has ever seen God, but the only begotten Son..."
44Then Jesus cried out, “When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me.45When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. (John 12)
You cannot believe in God without also believing in Jesus Christ, and
you cannot believe in Jesus Christ without also believing in God.
Why not?
Because Jesus is God.
He who believes me, does not believe me.
Rather, he believes him who sent me.
Why has the original poster, who is a Jehovah's Witness, and believes that only God the Father is called Jehovah, not attempted to refute post #71 which shows by means of Scripture that all three Persons of the Trinity are called 'Yahweh' ?
From post #71
No Ego. Jesus Christ is not the same Person as the Father. They are two different Persons within the Trinity. But the name Jehovah, or more properly Yahweh - 'Yhvh' is used of all three Persons. Concerning Jesus Christ, one example is in Zechariah 14:3 'Then the LORD (Yahweh) will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle.
Jesus Christ is Yah-weh. Verse 4 then states, 'And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east...'
Now compare Zech 14:3-4 with Revelation 19:11-19.
It is Jesus Christ - Yahweh who will descend from heaven and stand on the Mount of Olives, just as He ascended into heaven from the Mount of Olives (Acts 1:9-12).
Jesus Christ is Yah-weh (Jehovah).
That the Father is Yahweh need not be pointed out.
Now as the Father and Jesus Christ, the First and Second Persons of the Trinity are both Yah-weh or Jehovah, so also is the Holy Spirit.
Literally 'The Spirit of Yah-weh'. One of many titles of the Holy Spirit. Isa 11:2 'And the Spirit of the LORD (Yahweh) will rest on Him...'
As John 15:26 shows, the Holy Spirit is a different Person from God the Father and God the Son. ''But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.''
All three Persons of the Trinity are Yah-weh or Jehovah.
lost and stumbling... just like all religionists before you. Isnt it obvious that none of you know anything? I wouldnt pretend im more Jewish then the Jews if Chris Angel himself said he was the messiah, and his followers proclaimed him God.
How exactly does it happen that normal human beings, all endowed with that of a conscience, having an awareness of individual responsibility for their judgments and choices, manage
to justify in their own eyes the most inhuman atrocities and acts of self-righteousness without running into intolerable cognitive dissonance within their own supreme values?
I would completely agree with you Katie. Could you please point out where I've said something that should have been prefaced with IMO? I think the only thing I've actually come out and said as a statement is that I believe Jesus is God. Is that what you're referring to?
mzjamiedawn,
You have never said anything that should have been prefaced with IMO that I know of.
I am not disagreeing with anything you said. I am completely with you. I don't think we will be judged by what we believe. That's all I was trying to say. As for ME, I need to be more careful to preface everything with IMO. I wasn't suggesting that you had done that.
Sorry if you misunderstood. No criticism intended.
1. Since you translate John 1:1 as the Word was a god, do you believe Jesus is a god? If so, how do you deal with that fact? If not, then what does this scripture mean?
2. Jesus was worshiped while on the earth. Did He deserve it? Does He deserve it now?
3. Since the Watchtower used to teach that it was ok for Jesus to be worshiped, but changed their mind in the 1950s, what happens to all the Witnesses before then that worshiped Jesus?
Thanks!
I'll give it a whirl... 1. Since you translate John 1:1 as the Word was a god, do you believe Jesus is a god? If so, how do you deal with that fact? If not, then what does this scripture mean? The answer lies in the scriptures
John 10:34- 38 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, you are gods'? (Quoting Psalms 82:6) If he called them gods to whom the word of God came (and scripture cannot be broken),do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'? If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me;
First, Jesus never called himself "God", instead " the "Son of God". Since the Jews were charging him with blaspheming, Jesus was pointing out that even the law in which they put their faith, called others gods. Jesus, however stated many times in this account that every work that he had done he had done in his father's name, & that he was sent by his father. The Jews just didn't want to accept it...they had already made up their minds.
How I "deal" with this fact of Jesus being "a god" is the account in Exodus 4:10-17. 15 & 16 specifically: And you shall speak to him and put the words in his mouth; and I will be with your mouth and with his mouth, and will teach you what you shall do. And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people; and it shall come to pass, that he shall be to thee a mouth, and thou shalt be to him as God.
This demonstrates, IMHO, how Jesus can be instructed by God and act as "a god" to people. He's leading the way...we look to Jesus for every step toward pure and absolute worship toward the Father, Jehovah.
2. Jesus was worshiped while on the earth. Did He deserve it? Does He deserve it now?
Matthew 4:10- "Then Jesus said to him, "Begone, Satan! for it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God (Jehovah) and him only shall you serve.'" (Quoting Deut 5:9, 6:13, Joshua 24:14)
Since Jesus is Jehovah's appointed King, and his followers heard the voice out of Heaven identifying him as, "My Son, the beloved; I have approved you.", who wouldn't bow down and revere him. I believe there is a distinction between giving exclusive worship, sacred service, and whole souled devotion toward Jehovah, and bowing in reverence towards the one that Jehovah sent forth. If Jehovah says, "This is my Son. Listen to him, follow him.", then in exclusive devotion and obedience to Jehovah, you BET I'll do it!
3. Since the Watchtower used to teach that it was ok for Jesus to be worshiped, but changed their mind in the 1950s, what happens to all the Witnesses before then that worshiped Jesus?
After going back and looking through the indexes, I don't see that teaching at all. Every reference about worship seems to be consistent with what I posted above. If I'm incorrect, and there was some adjustment made then I appreciate the adjustment toward more accurate knowledge. If there was an adjustment, what would happen if others worshipped Jesus?...it's not up to anyone to say. Jehovah has given the authority to judge salvation to Jesus alone (John 5:25-30).
Hopefully, I was articulate enough to get my points across.
Why has the original poster, who is a Jehovah's Witness, and believes that only God the Father is called Jehovah, not attempted to refute post #71 which shows by means of Scripture that all three Persons of the Trinity are called 'Yahweh' ?
From post #71
No Ego. Jesus Christ is not the same Person as the Father. They are two different Persons within the Trinity. But the name Jehovah, or more properly Yahweh - 'Yhvh' is used of all three Persons. Concerning Jesus Christ, one example is in Zechariah 14:3 'Then the LORD (Yahweh) will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle.
Jesus Christ is Yah-weh. Verse 4 then states, 'And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east...'
Now compare Zech 14:3-4 with Revelation 19:11-19.
It is Jesus Christ - Yahweh who will descend from heaven and stand on the Mount of Olives, just as He ascended into heaven from the Mount of Olives (Acts 1:9-12).
Jesus Christ is Yah-weh (Jehovah).
That the Father is Yahweh need not be pointed out.
Now as the Father and Jesus Christ, the First and Second Persons of the Trinity are both Yah-weh or Jehovah, so also is the Holy Spirit.
Literally 'The Spirit of Yah-weh'. One of many titles of the Holy Spirit. Isa 11:2 'And the Spirit of the LORD (Yahweh) will rest on Him...'
As John 15:26 shows, the Holy Spirit is a different Person from God the Father and God the Son. ''But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.''
All three Persons of the Trinity are Yah-weh or Jehovah.
So, you hold the belief that the name Jehovah is a collective term for the trinity? Jesus is Jehovah, the Father is Jehovah, and the holy spirit is Jehovah...and all together they equal Jehovah?
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