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Location: Somewhere along the path to where I'd like to be.
2,180 posts, read 5,423,097 times
Reputation: 829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunky39
hey you think this is hard.
try getting flogged and nailed to a cross
heck of a payback for doing a little preaching and healing
i dont know what kind of life you have been leading
but i did not get a lot of blah blah blah.
i have spent most of the time 2 steps ahead of the wolves
just like him
i dont have any holes in my hands yet but there were some near misses.
so i guess i am not your best guy to deal with the blah blah blah.
stephen s
san diego ca
I'm sorry you didn't understand what I was doing when I posted the "blah blah blah".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
Not to get too OT, but am I to understand that if I, as a Protestant(Baptist) went to mass at a Catholic Church, I'd be denied the Lord's Supper, even as a professing follower of Jesus the Christ??
Catholics. is that true?
I'm not Catholic - but yes, Alpha, if I understand Catholicism correctly, that is true. In fact, in the Orthodox Church I think the priest has to actually recognize you as a parishioner before you are given communion.
Last edited by Pathwalker; 09-13-2007 at 03:37 PM..
At the beginning of my initiation, I was still taking it at mass, until one of my instructors told me I really should wait. So now knowing something about the churches teachings I agreed to stop, because I knew then I was not fully "in communion" with the church. One day, I hope we will all be " in communion".
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCRob
I'm not Catholic - but yes, Alpha, if I understand Catholicism correctly, that is true. In fact, in the Orthodox Church I think the priest has to actually recognize you as a parishioner before you are given communion.
Well, I'll say this, I never knew that. And if I were a Catholic, it would really bother me that anyone would be refused the Lord's Supper. I doubt Jesus would deny it to anyone.
Not trying to get on some Catholic kick here, but unless I'm mistaken it's generally the Catholics here who are more critical about 'intolerance and acceptance' than any other specific denomination.
Again, not trying to open a can of worms, I'm just kinda floored by what I just learned.
Thanks Oakback and WCRob.
EDIT: One more question, Oakback, exactly where is the biblical reference for being in 'communion with the church'. I'm quite interested in the Catholic basis for this.
Last edited by Alpha8207; 09-13-2007 at 05:12 PM..
Reason: Added 'EDIT'
Well, I'll say this, I never knew that. And if I were a Catholic, it would really bother me that anyone would be refused the Lord's Supper. I doubt Jesus would deny it to anyone.
Not trying to get on some Catholic kick here, but unless I'm mistaken it's generally the Catholics here who are more critical about 'intolerance and acceptance' than any other specific denomination.
Again, not trying to open a can of worms, I'm just kinda floored by what I just learned.
Thanks Oakback and WCRob.
EDIT: One more question, Oakback, exactly where is the biblical reference for being in 'communion with the church'. I'm quite interested in the Catholic basis for this.
This is from memory, so I'm not speaking for the Roman Catholic Church, but it goes something like this;
At one point in time, there was one CHURCH, the body of all the faithful.
Over time, (there is even evidence of it in the New Test.)dissension & heresy, divided it.
We can discuss the East West split, Luther, Calvin, even Mennon a former Catholic Priest who broke off and formed the Mennonites, but those are for another time. The point is that the Roman Catholic Church yearns for the day that all Christians will be united, or "in communion"
This is from memory, so I'm not speaking for the Roman Catholic Church, but it goes something like this;
At one point in time, there was one CHURCH, the body of all the faithful.
Over time, (there is even evidence of it in the New Test.)dissension & heresy, divided it.
We can discuss the East West split, Luther, Calvin, even Mennon a former Catholic Priest who broke off and formed the Mennonites, but those are for another time. The point is that the Roman Catholic Church yearns for the day that all Christians will be united, or "in communion"
OK, I don't want to hijack WCRob's thread, if I start a new thread, can we discuss there?
Location: Somewhere along the path to where I'd like to be.
2,180 posts, read 5,423,097 times
Reputation: 829
Alpha, I think it has something to do with Roman Catholicism considering itself to be the one true original church, while seeing other denominations as lacking in the fullness of the sacraments and grace. Therefore, I think since it considers the wine and bread to be the actual flesh and blood of Jesus (Google "Transubstantiation") - and since Protestants DON'T view it that way - they may not see Protestants as receiving the host in a worthy manner. I don't know, though. You'd honestly have to talk to a Catholic about this - perhaps a priest - in order to understand it better.
quote:
"Christianity is too hard. It's too complex. It seems like when it comes to knowing the faith, there is simply too much to remember. Too much to know. Anyone else agree with me on this?"
the truth is some ministries turn salvation into 10 steps to Jesus because it turn a profit. some people teach salvation as believers use to bring sheeps, and goats to God as an offering now that we are in the new testiment where Jesus is our sacrifice and offering "well aaah, still bring a money as an offering to God cause you need to bring all the tithe into the church so there will be food for God's people. aaah, God don't need our money, bible say's man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes out of HIS mouth, still preachers find a way to tie old testiment guidelines into the new testiment because it turns a profit. books and tapes on how to be delivered from your past is putting a price on deliverance, and so it cost to be free is what they are pushing. it cost money! when you step back and look what you'll see is this: tones of bible verses to learn, tons of materials besides the bible's 66 books to read, tons of notes to take, tones of classes to take, tones of services to attend, tones of people to satisfy, tones of songs to know, tones of things to change like your clothes, friends, maybe your job, your hair, and so on.
salvation is very simple and not at all complicated if you can just know when someone is teaching out of experiences and others out of what someone else has taught them, what they heard on the radio and so on.
the bible is called old and new TESTIMENTS. these are testimonies of the life of believers which included those around them who did not believe, and shows how God worked to keep a relationship with men back then and then and is for now which are the times we live in. all this to the guidance and wisdom of God for you personal walk of faith.
the new testiment are testimonies of Jesus life and those believers who walked with him. they are inspired testimonies [old and new] that should encourage and teach us many of God's ways, but the bible should not be used as a book of debt to God to perform identically to you as he did to them back then, nor should it be an overbearing burden of rules to follow. times are different and our God given purpose needs to be understood as to how our lives become a testimony further revealing God in our times. we get this by talking with God as our savior and walking out what we know in our hearts to be God's truth. not gorging down, and ramming down, and stuffing ourselves sick as to obtain heaven.
if you're running around with the feeling that the mountain of salvation just keeps getting higher and harder by the moment, then that's your indication that a lot of what you got is fat with man made ideas of who God is, and how he can be reached. slow down and chew what you know is from God to you, and let the rest sit on the side, and then pick what you need when God reveals it to you.
Matt 11:30 - For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
1Cor. 14:33 - For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
just walk with God, DON'T RUN, and don't let others DRAG YOU ALONG either. remember having a relationship with God is not about how swift you are or how strong you are, but it's about LASTING. just stay with, God and let him set your pace and you can't go wrong.
Christianity is too hard. It's too complex. It seems like when it comes to knowing the faith, there is simply too much to remember. Too much to know. Anyone else agree with me on this?
How can simple people possibly keep up? I just want to believe in God and Jesus. I'm so sick of trying to figure out this religion.
It seems like people went from one system of laws in the Old Testament, and jumped right into a whole new system of rules and regulations in the New Testament. I thought the whole point of Jesus dying for us was to be our SAVIOR?? Didn't He take on all our sins and pay the penalty for all of them? Didn't He die because we couldn't possibly keep a system of rules in order to be saved? So why is it so hard?
Why is it every time I turn around, I'm seeing all this deep stuff about what it means to truly be spiritual, and how a true Christian will be this or that, and will strive to attain this or that level of such and such because the great essence of love and faith is to be here or there doing this and that while avoiding so and so, in the hopes of maintaining a pure heart and spirit so that his inner self can truly be free to love in such and such way, leading to blah blah blah. I read something tonight which basically parallels the following:
Man has an integral part in this process because society cannot, even by God, be established from a place outside of creation by force, but can only be grown from within by those who love. It doesn't, however, have to be begun by us. It is the kingdom of God which has already been established on earth in the man Christ Jesus. We can enter it here and now by the surrender of faith, obedience and commitment to him. To the great extent in which we do, he can use us as the instruments through whom he grants his love to others. Such a surrender involves the gift of the complete and whole personality with all its abilities. Therefore, obedience isn't achieved or fulfilled in a passive acceptance and execution of other's instructions, but rather means accepting your full part in the growth of the ordinary life, adding not only one's talents and capacities, but also one's striving desire to oversee the creation of a society of love, both within that community and in the surrounding world. And so that all may make their honest and sincere contribution, those in charge and indeed ALL believers must bear in mind that all other people, whether clergy or lay person as well as those interested in becoming either are gifted with a responsibility to themselves, community and the Holy Lord and God, which they singly and without outside influence can understand and commence.
Huh???
Seriously, reading all that was like reading through a 20 page, fine-print contract. I don't understand a word that is being said.
Honestly, does ANYONE actually GET it? And if so, how do you possibly remember it all on a daily basis? How does one consciously keep all that stuff in mind?
Oh, and please, mods - if this should be in the Christianity sub-forum, by all means move it.
I think Christianity is one of the easiest religions that is why it is appealing. Judaism is usually considered harder because they have to follow all the commandments. I do not know about Islam
I think Christianity is one of the easiest religions that is why it is appealing. Judaism is usually considered harder because they have to follow all the commandments. I do not know about Islam
Judaism is easy and Islam easier. Why? because you just have to follow rules and regulations. Want to be holy? follow the rules. Want to be "holier" become stricter with the rules. It is the basic premise of Abrahamic faiths...except Christianity. Christianity is easier to "fake" but harder to do, and it's about your heart. We have so many who "know" the scriptures but do not know Jesus.
Mat 7:14 But the gate is narrow and the way is difficult that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
I'd say... yup, it's hard ... or so the Bible says.
Christianity is too hard. It's too complex. It seems like when it comes to knowing the faith, there is simply too much to remember. Too much to know. Anyone else agree with me on this?
How can simple people possibly keep up? I just want to believe in God and Jesus. I'm so sick of trying to figure out this religion.
It seems like people went from one system of laws in the Old Testament, and jumped right into a whole new system of rules and regulations in the New Testament. I thought the whole point of Jesus dying for us was to be our SAVIOR?? Didn't He take on all our sins and pay the penalty for all of them? Didn't He die because we couldn't possibly keep a system of rules in order to be saved? So why is it so hard?
Why is it every time I turn around, I'm seeing all this deep stuff about what it means to truly be spiritual, and how a true Christian will be this or that, and will strive to attain this or that level of such and such because the great essence of love and faith is to be here or there doing this and that while avoiding so and so, in the hopes of maintaining a pure heart and spirit so that his inner self can truly be free to love in such and such way, leading to blah blah blah. I read something tonight which basically parallels the following:
Man has an integral part in this process because society cannot, even by God, be established from a place outside of creation by force, but can only be grown from within by those who love. It doesn't, however, have to be begun by us. It is the kingdom of God which has already been established on earth in the man Christ Jesus. We can enter it here and now by the surrender of faith, obedience and commitment to him. To the great extent in which we do, he can use us as the instruments through whom he grants his love to others. Such a surrender involves the gift of the complete and whole personality with all its abilities. Therefore, obedience isn't achieved or fulfilled in a passive acceptance and execution of other's instructions, but rather means accepting your full part in the growth of the ordinary life, adding not only one's talents and capacities, but also one's striving desire to oversee the creation of a society of love, both within that community and in the surrounding world. And so that all may make their honest and sincere contribution, those in charge and indeed ALL believers must bear in mind that all other people, whether clergy or lay person as well as those interested in becoming either are gifted with a responsibility to themselves, community and the Holy Lord and God, which they singly and without outside influence can understand and commence.
Huh???
Seriously, reading all that was like reading through a 20 page, fine-print contract. I don't understand a word that is being said.
Honestly, does ANYONE actually GET it? And if so, how do you possibly remember it all on a daily basis? How does one consciously keep all that stuff in mind?
Oh, and please, mods - if this should be in the Christianity sub-forum, by all means move it.
Proverbs 3:
5. Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding.
6. In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight.
You might be overwhelmed--most of us are in this time and place in our lives. Just trust and have faith and I KNOW he will guide and direct you!!!!
Judaism is easy and Islam easier. Why? because you just have to follow rules and regulations. Want to be holy? follow the rules. Want to be "holier" become stricter with the rules. It is the basic premise of Abrahamic faiths...except Christianity. Christianity is easier to "fake" but harder to do, and it's about your heart. We have so many who "know" the scriptures but do not know Jesus.
Mat 7:14 But the gate is narrow and the way is difficult that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
I'd say... yup, it's hard ... or so the Bible says.
That is an interesting comment. So Judaism and Islam follow rules, which make it easier. I though following laws are difficult, matter of fact don't societies have laws and probably most people have a hard time following these laws. If Christianity abandons the rules because Jesus said love one another is the number one Commandment than is it easier to be a Christian. To be Christian all I have to do is believe in Jesus and ask for his forgiveness. Some people claim you have to be baptized. So if I do those three things I am a Christian. Sounds easy to me I think that is why Constantine accepted Jesus on his death bed.
Deut 18
10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in [a] the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. 13 You must be blameless before the LORD your God.
Christians love to Consult the Dead...oh wait that is right he was resurrected so hmm...that would be a spirit...
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