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In the end it is about being restored to the Father. It is not a matter of whether or not someone is a believer in Jesus Christ, right? Just because I believe that we are dead in the grave until the resurrection should not cause strife for anyone. When we are raised, it will be as if we have gone immediately to be with the Lord. Life and death are in His hands. God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 05-12-2012 at 11:44 AM..
People, I am now done with this thread. I have given more than sufficent proof from the Scriptures that the believer goes to heaven when he dies. And I have given more of my time on this thread than is warranted trying to get through to people who are so biased in favor of the false doctrine of soul sleep that they utterly refuse to see what is right in front of their eyes. Who make every effort to distort the meaning of the passages which clearly show that man's soul is immortal and that the believer goes to heaven when he dies.
For those of you who have understanding and a desire to see that the Bible teaches that the believer goes to heaven at death, simply refer to my posts. I will spend no more of my time on this.
We are not born again by the will of man: Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
To the contrary. As Luke 16:19-31, Rev 6:9-11, Rev 7:9-17 show, those who have died are conscious whether in heaven or in Hades.
Quote:
Ps. 6:5 In death there is no remembrance of thee; in Sheol who can give praise.
Ps. 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Ps. 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returns to his earth; in that day his
thoughts perish.
Eccl. 9:4-6 The living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing.
neither have any more reward; the memory of them is forgotten.
Isa. 38:18, 19 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
After reading these verses, the dead cannot praise the Lord or exercise mental powers.
Just for the record folks...I do not belong to any of the sects [nor a cult] that Mike mentioned above.
I'm just a student of the written Word who God called out of darkness into His marvelous light.
I USE to believe in ET, going to heaven/hell myself til I studied the WHOLE counsel of God; not just the NT.
And Richard it correct. Mike likes to fault us for studying the OT, but guess what...Messiah, and His apostles taught from the OT.
How do we know this? The NT hadn't been written yet.
So what is the purpose of the NT? It's to expound on the OT.
"The New is in the Old concealed, the Old in in the NEW revealed."
Messiah explain/taught EVERYTHING from the OT.
He quoted the OT 78 times, the Pentateuch alone 26 times. In all His teachings He referred to the divine authority of the OT (Mt. 5:17-18; 8:17; 12:40-42; Lk. 4:18-21; 10:25-28; 15:29-31; 17:32; 24:25-45; Jn. 5:39-47).
He quoted from Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Psalms, Proverbs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Amos, Jonah, Micah, and Malachi. He referred to the OT as “The Scriptures,” “the word of God,” and “the wisdom of God.” The apostles quoted 209 times from the OT and considered it “the oracles of God.”
The O T in hundreds of places predicted the events of the NT; and is the fulfillment of, and testifies to the genuineness and authenticity of the OT.
Matter of fact both Testaments must be considered together as the Word of God.
Messiah constantly reminded ppl of "what is written" and talked about "the Law and the Prophets."
That's called the OT, Mike.
Paul constantly referred to and taught from the OT.
Just how important is the OT?
Isa 8:20 To the law [first 5 books] and to the testimony:[Psalms, Prov. prophetic books] if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
It wasn't until I began to compare the Old and the New that I began to have light in me.
Ho 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Ps 119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Ps 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
God's Word is not just the NT, Mike and it's not just the NT that gives us light.
Let us not forget that the Apostles also quotes the book of Enoch abd the book of Jasher...
Now, I will go back to what I have said before. It is pointless trying to get through to you, as you simply ignore everything which is said to you. You have no interest in the truth but simply wish to argue. You attempt to strengthen your arguments with the use of insults and putdowns such as accusations of not using reason and logic. You have twisted things which I have said. You like to call people 'dim', though you haven't used that one so far on this thread.
Ok...You're Dim...Happy?...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
You are very lacking in understanding of the Scriptures. More than adequate proof has been given which shows that the believer goes to heaven when he dies. If you are unwilling to acknowledge that, then it's your problem.
I lacked understanding once upon a time...Long, long ago...However, my constant prayer to Yehovaw Elohim Hawyaw has been that I desire to know His Truth...Not mine...Not yours...Nor anyone elses...Just His...Even if I am the only one in the entire world that professes His Truth and I garner persecution...So Mote It Be...Because it matter not what you belive or I believe If it is not the Truth...It does not amount to a hill of beans...
What I told the other poster applies to you as well. You are lacking in understanding of the Scriptures. You do not rightly divide them. You refuse to listen. You like to use insults and putdowns in an attempt to strengthen your arguments.
I fault no one for studying the Old Testament. It is a part of the word of God. It is not in opposition to the New Testament. But the New Testament sheds light on the Old Testament. Divine revelation is progressive. What is not clearly revealed, or not revealed at all in the Old Testament is seen more clearly in the New Testament. The destination of both the believer and the unbeliever is more clearly seen in the New Testament.
No...The Old Testament sheds light on the New Testament...This is what Yeshua taught from and it is what the Apostles taught from...All the Parables that Yeshua used have a reference in the Old Testament...So, we must go there to understand...This is the problem with New Age Christianity, it sets itself down in the NT and rarely ventures into the OT...That is where all the meat is...
John 11- 21Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. 22But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
It seems to me that Martha didn't believe that her brother was living in paradise, she thought he was dead and would not live again until the resurrection
.
And she was a Jewess?...Gee, where in the world did she get that from?...I guess it was not just hipocracy that Yeshua was combating but aso the fact that they got it all screwed up and He had to straighen it out...Notice, Yeshua did not correct her...Now did He?...
While Messiah was walking the earth the temple in Jerusalem was the center of Jewish religious life.
It was the place where sacrifices and worship were carried out according to the Law of Moses. Here we see the veil separated the Holy of Holiest; the earthly place where God dwelt, from the rest of the temple or the place where man dwelt.
Heb. 9:
1 ¶ Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
8 ¶ The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience
What does this signify? It signifies man was separated from God by sin:
Isa. 59:
1 ¶ Behold, Yahovah's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear
Back in the day only the high priest was permitted to pass beyond this veil once each year to enter into God's presence for all of Israel and make atonement for their sins [See Lev. 16].
And of course the veil was about 60 ft. high and 4" thick. It says horses tied to each side could not pull the veil apart.
So again what was the significance of the veil being rent in two? It signified now the way into the Holy of Holies was open for all ppl, for all time.
It shows us the veil was a symbol of Messiah [John 14:6]. Why? He is the only way to the Father.
Or in other words we can now enter the "Holy of Holies" through our belief in Messiah's work/sacrifice on the cross.
People, I am now done with this thread. I have given more than sufficent proof from the Scriptures that the believer goes to heaven when he dies. And I have given more of my time on this thread than is warranted trying to get through to people who are so biased in favor of the false doctrine of soul sleep that they utterly refuse to see what is right in front of their eyes. Who make every effort to distort the meaning of the passages which clearly show that man's soul is immortal and that the believer goes to heaven when he dies.
For those of you who have understanding and a desire to see that the Bible teaches that the believer goes to heaven at death, simply refer to my posts. I will spend no more of my time on this.
You have proven nothing...Except that you have DIM understanding...It is you who have distorted the Truth...You have failed miserabley to prove this even from the OT...Your blood is on you own head now...
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