The Bible shows that man's soul is immortal and that the believer in Jesus Christ goes to heaven when he dies (disciples, Holy Spirit)
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The book of Revelation is in fact easy to understand. The passages mentioned (Rev 6:9-11; 7:9-17; 20:4) are clear and literal. John saw the souls of Tribulational martyrs in heaven.
You want to learn about the book of Revelation? Then here you go. One hundred and nine hours of study.
Dr. Robert L. Dean Jr.
Before coming to West Houston Bible Church, Dr. Dean was the Pastor of Preston City Bible Church in Preston, Connecticut. Prior to that he had served churches in both the Dallas and Houston, Texas areas and has over 35 years of pastoral experience.
Dr. Dean is a much sought after Bible teacher both in the United States and overseas. He serves on the adjunct faculty of Faith Evangelical Seminary and is the Chairman of the Governing Board for Chafer Theological Seminary.
Dr. Dean trained for the ministry at Dallas Theological Seminary where he earned a Th.M. in Hebrew and Old Testament Studies and later returned to pursue a Ph.D. in theological studies with an emphasis in Historical Theology. He also earned an M.A. in Philosophy from the University of St. Thomas (1987) and a Doctor of Ministry degree from Faith Evangelical Seminary (2002). In 1988 he was recognized as an Outstanding Young Man of America, and in 1989 was listed in the Who's Who in American Christian Leadership .
His academic training in Greek, Hebrew, theology, philosophy, and history enables him to study the Bible in the original languages and show how these eternal truths are as vital today as always. Dean Bible Ministries
If you don't want that much detail, then here is a less intensive study by a different Pastor/teacher which also studies the book of Daniel. It's only 51 hours in total.
So, the True Believer is kept alive until the coming of Yeshua?...If he is already in Paradise why even pray this?...It makes no sense whatsoever...May it be preserved complete, without blemish AT the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ...So, are you telling us that at death the Lord Jesus comes?...If you are already in Heaven after death, then you are preserved...Before His coming...
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
When Adam sinned he died spiritually immediately which eventually resulted in his physical death. As a result, everyone born is born spiritually dead and will die physically. Everyone is born with body and soul only.
Eph 2:1 And you were dead (spiritually) in your trespasses and sins.
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead (spiritually) in our transgressions, made us alive (spiritually) together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
It is through regeneration or being born again through faith alone in Christ alone that man is made spiritually alive. But he will still die physically unless he is a part of the rapture generation. The body must therefore be resurrected.
But the soul which is separate from the human spirit and from the body is that part of man which does not die. It survives the death of the body Matthew 10:28a "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul...
If you have received Christ as Savior your soul and human spirit go into the presence of God in heaven.
2 Cor 5:6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body (physically alive) we are absent from the Lord-- 7] for we walk by faith, not by sight (in this present life)-- 8] we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord (in heaven).
If you have not received Christ as your Savior your soul goes to the 'Torments' side of Hades.
Luke 16:22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom (this was before Jesus was resurrected and ascended); and the rich man also died and was buried. 23] "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment (the unbeliever still goes to Hades when he dies), and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
At physical death, man's immaterial and immortal soul therefore goes either to heaven or hades to await the resurrection of the body.
Daniel 12:2 "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life (believers in Christ), but the others (unbelievers) to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
Believers will be part of the first resurrection which is in stages. Church-age believers will be resurrected at the rapture of the church prior to the Tribulation. Old Testament saints and Tribulational believers will be resurrected when Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation to set up His Millennial kingdom on the earth. Unbelievers from all periods of human history will be part of the second resurrection which will take place at the end of the Millennium and be cast body and soul into the lake of fire which is the second death. Matthew 10:28b ...but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna - reference to the lake of fire). Being destroyed in the lake of fire does not mean cessation of existence, but rather refers to spending the eternal future in a state of ruination in disgrace and contempt and torment.
As for your question, 'Why would anyone have to seek immortality, if it's something they already possess?', the reference is to Romans 2:7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;'
The immortality mentioned is with reference to the body, while eternal life refers to that quality and foreverness of life in the presence of God in opposition to the state of eternal ruin and unending life of the unbeliever who is eternally separated from God in the lake of fire.
The passage (Rom 2:7) is hypothetical and within the context of Pauls subject in which he shows that justification is through faith in Christ and not on the basis of your works. No one can live a perfect life. If someone could live a perfect life free from sin, which is impossible because everyone is born already condemned on the basis of Adam's original sin, then he could qualify for eternal life on his own merit and God would give it to him.
All I can say is WOW!...There is great depth to what you say...
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You apparently are not even attempting to understand. Or you are deliberately twisting what I have said. And what I've said is clear. Your attitude is one not of wanting to learn, but is one of contentiousness.
Now we know where you get the garbage from...Obama has an even greater resume, let's follow him and shout, 'Thus saith Obama!' from the rooftops...
Revelations is highly METAPHORICAL...One must use the Old Testament to decipher the New...Not the other way around...
Revelation uses a lot of symbolic language to speak of things which are literal. It also contains literal passages. There is nothing allegorical about the fact that John saw Tribulational martyrs in heaven.
You have an opportunity to learn something about the book, and you dismiss it out of hand.
It is absolutely useless to continue to reply to you as you have no desire to learn. You wish only to argue.
And by the way, if you would notice, one of the studies on Revelation begins with a study on Daniel which is Old Testament and helps to understand Revelation.
Because God created man (Adam) as a trichotomous being. Man was created having body, soul, and spirit. God intends for man to live forever AS a trichotomous being.
When Adam sinned he died spiritually immediately which eventually resulted in his physical death. As a result, everyone born is born spiritually dead and will die physically. Everyone is born with body and soul only.
It is through regeneration or being born again through faith alone in Christ alone that man is made spiritually alive. But he will still die physically unless he is a part of the rapture generation. The body must therefore be resurrected.
But the soul which is separate from the human spirit and from the body is that part of man which does not die. It survives the death of the body
If you have received Christ as Savior your soul and human spirit go into the presence of God in heaven.
If you have not received Christ as your Savior your soul goes to the 'Torments' side of Hades.
At physical death, man's immaterial and immortal soul therefore goes either to heaven or hades to await the resurrection of the body.
Believers will be part of the first resurrection which is in stages. Church-age believers will be resurrected at the rapture of the church prior to the Tribulation. Old Testament saints and Tribulational believers will be resurrected when Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation to set up His Millennial kingdom on the earth. Unbelievers from all periods of human history will be part of the second resurrection which will take place at the end of the Millennium and be cast body and soul into the lake of fire which is the second death. Being destroyed in the lake of fire does not mean cessation of existence, but rather refers to spending the eternal future in a state of ruination in disgrace and contempt and torment.
As for your question, 'Why would anyone have to seek immortality, if it's something they already possess?', the reference is to Romans 2:7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;'
The immortality mentioned is with reference to the body, while eternal life refers to that quality and foreverness of life in the presence of God in opposition to the state of eternal ruin and unending life of the unbeliever who is eternally separated from God in the lake of fire.
The passage (Rom 2:7) is hypothetical and within the context of Pauls subject in which he shows that justification is through faith in Christ and not on the basis of your works. No one can live a perfect life. If someone could live a perfect life free from sin, which is impossible because everyone is born already condemned on the basis of Adam's original sin, then he could qualify for eternal life on his own merit and God would give it to him.
The dropout rate is high according to your hypothetical reasoning, which is based on the commentaries of others that you have adopted as your own.
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Originally Posted by Richard1965
So, are you telling us that at death the Lord Jesus comes?
If he were saying this, his end time theories would fade away.
Along with the rest of humanities fables or myths, concerning Hades.
"The Spirit of Man does not die, but his body and soul will cease to be; until it is Resurrected with the Spirit of truth."
What a transformation it will be, looking forward to that day!
The dropout rate is high according to your hypothetical reasoning, which is based on the commentaries of others that you have adopted as your own.
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It was the apostle Paul who was stating a hypothetical situation. Both Rom 2:7 and 2:13 are hypothetical.
Romans 2:7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
Romans 2:13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
As he went on to say, no man has continued in well doing.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20] because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
No man is justified with regard to eternal life in the sight of God by his works.
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If he were saying this, his end time theories would fade away.
Along with the rest of humanities fables or myths, concerning Hades.
"The Spirit of Man does not die, but his body and soul will cease to be; until it is Resurrected with the Spirit of truth."
The soul does not die. And this has been covered over and over in this thread. Resurrection never has anything to do with the soul. It always refers to the body.
The soul does not die. And this has been covered over and over in this thread.
Resurrection never has anything to do with the soul. It always refers to the body.
Your thoughts will vanish in spite of what you say.
To the contrary. The Bible says that the soul survives the death of the body. Matthew 10:28
Why are you keeping hanging your hat on this verse? If we look at Matt 10:28 in light of the numerous uses of this word ‘soul’ in the ‘Bible’ being associated with death and destruction, it is quite clear that you are interpreting the verse incorrectly.
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Originally Posted by Mike555
John states in Revelation that he saw the souls of martyred Tribulational believers in heaven.
In Revelation 6:9-11 the time is during the Tribulation and the fifth seal has been broken. The scene is in heaven. The people in view are Tribulational martyrs who had been slain because of the word of God and because of the testimony they had maintained. John describes them as being under the altar. They want to know how long they must wait before they are avenged, and are told that that they must wait a little longer and should rest.
Rev 6:9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10] and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11] And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
The ‘bible’ teaches that the dead are unconscious; as a result we can’t take Rev 6:9 literally. See Psa 6:5; 115:17; 146:4, Ecc. 9:4-6, Isa. 38:18-19.
Mike ‘god’ remembers the dead and is in a sense outside of time as we know it; therefore “all live unto Him” (see Luk. 20:38). It is ‘god’ who is conscious of us, not the other way around. So Rev 6:9 speaks figuratively about the unconscious dead as if their blood, their lives, demands from ‘god’ a response in judging their murderers. It’s kind of reminiscent of Abel’s blood crying out to ‘God’.
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Originally Posted by Mike555
This same group of Trbulational martyrs is mentioned in Rev 7:9-17. Rev 7:1-8 shifts to the earth but then shifts back to heaven in Rev 7:9. John sees a great multitude of people from every nation, and peoples. They are standing before the throne and before Jesus Christ. John is told by one of the 24 Elders that these people are the ones who have come out of the Tribulation. They have washed their robes which is a reference to having been made righteous, and for that reason are before the throne of God and serving Him day and night.
Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; 10] and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb." 11] And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12] saying, "Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen." 13] Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?" 14] I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15] "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. 16] "They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat; 17] for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes."
In Revelation 20:4 these Tribulational martyrs are seen yet again, and their bodies are about to be resurrected.
Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
And it is to be noticed that prior to their resurrection, John said that he could see the souls of these Tribulational martyrs which may imply some kind of an immaterial intermediate body in heaven between physical death and the resurrection of the body.
For those who are interested, here is what Dr. Robert L. Dean Jr. taught on these passages in his Revelation series. For his biography go here --> Dean Bible Ministries
Revelation 155b Seal Judgments 4-6. Revelation 6:8-17. June 29, 2008.
Revelation 167b Salvation in the Tribulation. Revelation 7:4-8. October 5, 2008.
As these passages show, the soul is both immortal, and the believer in Jesus Christ goes to heaven.
I have no I idea why you’re taking John’s visions literally. Rev 1:10 says John was “in the spirit” on the Lord’s Day. The fact that John was "in the spirit" on the Lord’s Day proves that he was not literally there. John just wrote the symbolic images he saw and heard in a vision.
Why are you keeping hanging your hat on this verse? If we look at Matt 10:28 in light of the numerous uses of this word ‘soul’ in the ‘Bible’ being associated with death and destruction, it is quite clear that you are interpreting the verse incorrectly.
I have given many Scriptures in this thread. Matthew 10:28 is but one of them and says what it says. I have also shown that the Bible speaks of different categories of death. Also, Destruction - Apollumi does not mean to cease to exist, but speaks of ruination and uselessness. In the case of the unbeliever it refers to spending the eternal future in the lake of fire.
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The ‘bible’ teaches that the dead are unconscious; as a result we can’t take Rev 6:9 literally. See Psa 6:5; 115:17; 146:4, Ecc. 9:4-6, Isa. 38:18-19.
Mike ‘god’ remembers the dead and is in a sense outside of time as we know it; therefore “all live unto Him” (see Luk. 20:38). It is ‘god’ who is conscious of us, not the other way around. So Rev 6:9 speaks figuratively about the unconscious dead as if their blood, their lives, demands from ‘god’ a response in judging their murderers. It’s kind of reminiscent of Abel’s blood crying out to ‘God’.
The Bible does not teach that the dead are unconscious. The various groups or sects such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Seventh Day Adventists, the Christadelphians, and others who promote the false teaching of soul sleep like to park themselves in the Old Testament and use those verses to promote that heresy.
Just to take one of those verses, Psalms 146:4 His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish., that simply means that when a man dies, his plans and ambitions concerning this life vanish.
Here is some commentary on Psalm 146:4.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
His thoughts perish - His purposes; his schemes; his plans; his purposes of conquest and ambition; his schemes for becoming rich or great; his plans of building a house, and laying out his grounds, and enjoying life; his design of making a book, or taking a journey, or giving himself to ease and pleasure. Luke 12:19-20 : "and I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry; but God said unto him, Thou fool! this night thy soul shall be required of time." Such are all the purposes of men! Psalm 146:4 Bible Commentary
Gill's Exposition on the Entire Bible
in that very day his thoughts perish; in the day, hour, and moment he dies: not that the soul ceases, or ceases to think at death; it is immortal, and dies not; and, as it exists in a separate state after death, it retains all its powers and faculties, and, among the rest, its power of thinking; which it is capable of exercising, and does, as appears from the case of the souls under the altar, Revelation 6:9. But the meaning is, that at death all the purposes and designs of men are at an end; all their projects and schemes, which they had formed, and were pursuing, now come to nothing; whether to do good to others, or to aggrandize themselves and families; and therefore such mortal creatures are not to be depended upon, since all their promises may fail; nay, even their good designs may be frustrated; see Job 17:12. Psalm 146:4 Bible Commentary
Revelation 6:9-11, 7:9-17, and 20:4 all speak of the same group of people who have been martyred during the Tribulation and are in heaven. There is nothing symbolic about it.
One of the 24 elders who most likely represent the raptured church in heaven tells John that these people he sees are taken out of the Tribulation and are before the throne of God and are serving Him (Rev 7:13-15). In Rev 20:4 John states that they came to life, which refers to the resurrection of the body.
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I have no I idea why you’re taking John’s visions literally. Rev 1:10 says John was “in the spirit” on the Lord’s Day. The fact that John was "in the spirit" on the Lord’s Day proves that he was not literally there. John just wrote the symbolic images he saw and heard in a vision.
John was 'in the spirit.' He was shown things which are to be after the church is raptured. He was shown things which will occur during the Tribulation. What he saw are things which are literal. The martyrs in heaven are not symbolic of anything. They are real people.
Now here are the passages again.
In Revelation 6:9-11 the time is during the Tribulation and the fifth seal has been broken. The scene is in heaven. The people in view are Tribulational martyrs who had been slain because of the word of God and because of the testimony they had maintained. John describes them as being under the altar. They want to know how long they must wait before they are avenged, and are told that that they must wait a little longer and should rest.
Rev 6:9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10] and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11] And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
This same group of Trbulational martyrs is mentioned in Rev 7:9-17. Rev 7:1-8 shifts to the earth but then shifts back to heaven in Rev 7:9. John sees a great multitude of people from every nation, and peoples. They are standing before the throne and before Jesus Christ. John is told by one of the 24 Elders that these people are the ones who have come out of the Tribulation. They have washed their robes which is a reference to having been made righteous, and for that reason are before the throne of God and serving Him day and night.
Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; 10] and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb." 11] And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12] saying, "Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen." 13] Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?" 14] I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15] "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. 16] "They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat; 17] for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes."
In Revelation 20:4 these Tribulational martyrs are seen yet again, and their bodies are about to be resurrected.
Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
And it is to be noticed that prior to their resurrection, John said that he could see the souls of these Tribulational martyrs which may imply some kind of an immaterial intermediate body in heaven between physical death and the resurrection of the body.
For those who are interested, here is what Dr. Robert L. Dean Jr. taught on these passages in his Revelation series. For his biography go here --> Dean Bible Ministries
1 Thess 4:13 'But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17] Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.'
1 Thess. 4:13-17, states that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him. The passage then says that those who are alive on the earth will not precede those who have fallen asleep which is a reference to the body. The Lord will come down from heaven with those believers who have died and have been in heaven, and they - the dead in Christ, will rise or be resurrected first. And then those who are alive will be caught up together with them in the air and all will then go into heaven for the duration of the Tribulation.
This is the resurrection of church-age believers at the rapture of the church prior to the Tribulation.
So who is Jesus bringing with him from heaven? They are immaterial souls that will be united with their bodies at this resurrection event. They had been with the Lord in heaven.
2 Cor 5:6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord--7] for we walk by faith, not by sight--8] we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
Paul states that while at home in the body we are absent from the Lord and walk by faith. Then he says that to be absent from the body is to be at home with the Lord. To be absent from the body refers to that time after physical death and before the body is resurrected. ABSENT FROM THE BODY means that the resurrection is not in view in this statement. Yet he says that being absent from the body (for the believer) is to be at home with the Lord.
The Lord is not in the grave. He is in heaven seated at the right hand of the Father. The believer when absent from the body is at home with the Lord in heaven and will return with Christ at the resurrection of the church as shown in 1 Thess 4:13-17.
Last edited by Michael Way; 05-11-2012 at 05:24 PM..
The Bible does not teach that the dead are unconscious. The various groups or sects such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Seventh Day Adventists, the Christadelphians, and others who promote the false teaching of soul sleep like to park themselves in the Old Testament and use those verses to promote that heresy.
Just to take one of those verses, Psalms 146:4 His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish., that simply means that when a man dies, his plans and ambitions concerning this life vanish.
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Psalm 115:17 (ESV) The dead do not praise the LORD, nor do any who go down into silence.
Ecclesiastes 9:4-6 and 10 (ESV)
(4) But he who is joined with all the living has hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion. (5) For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. (6) Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. (10) Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.
Death is a sleep -
Ps. 13:3 Lest I sleep the sleep of death.
1 Th. 4:13-18 Them that are asleep.
Jer. 51:39, 57 They swoon away and sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake.
Dan. 12:2 Them that sleep in the dust.
Eph. 5:14 Awake, O sleeper, arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you light.
These verses are very clear. The dead are not celebrating in the presence of 'god'. They are in Sheol, the grave. Both the righteous and the unrighteous are said to be "asleep" when they are dead.
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Deuteronomy 31:16 (KJV)[8]
And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers…
Mike 'god' told Moses he would “sleep” with his ancestors, not that he was going to heaven to be with him. Come on now.
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