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‘ See now that I, I am He,
And there is no god besides Me;
It is I who put to death and give life.
I have wounded and it is I who heal,
And there is no one who can deliver from My hand.
God is in the business of restoration/deliverance/ healing/salvation. He kills and He also makes alive. He wounds and He heals. It works together. This message runs through the scriptures. Even the earth will be rolled up like a scroll and will be changed, made new and so it is with those that God loves. He destroys, turns men to destruction and says "Return O children of men."
Romans 8:18-24
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation/creature eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation/creature was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation/creature itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
*hope=elpis=expectation
What person who has ever lived is excluded from the creation of God?
This passage tells me that there will come a time when those who are in bondage to corruption (the lost) will be set free, delivered just as the sons of God are delivered.
God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 05-07-2012 at 04:59 PM..
You interpret as vengeful I interpret as all loving. Let's agree to disagree. I am not waiting for you to save me through your beliefs. We have Christ for that.
Matthew 25
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. 36 I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’
37 “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? 39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
40 “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters,[f] you were doing it to me!’
41 “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons.[g] 42For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. 43I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’
44 “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’
45 “And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’
46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”
Since you take this strictly literally (not taking into account the dubious translations of aionios kolassin), how do you know that you will not be going away into eternal punishment? Not directing it at you personally, but how can anyone have assurance? Look at what these verses preceeding Matt 25:46 say.
Have you always fed the poor? Have you always visited the sick? Have you ever visited someone in prison?
What do the words of Jesus Himself say? "I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me."
Seems like we all are headed into eternal punishment - I don't know anyone who visits those in prison.
These are the words of Jesus. Not just verse 46, but verses 42-45 and the rest as well. How can you ignore these words of Jesus? (rhetorical question)
Hi legoman,
Christians have assurance of their salvation. It's not something we have to wonder about. When we obey the gospel, we are "in Christ." We are saved.
Hebrews 5:9 "9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him
Acts 5:32 "32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also isthe Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
Couple these scriptures with 1 John.
John tells us that if we walk in the light as He is in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. (Verse 7)
John alsoo says that if we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us and to cleanse us from all righteousness.
Read Paul's letters. He addresses them to "to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus," "to the saints who are at Ephesus, and who are faithful in Christ Jesus." Paul is writing to SAVED people.
So, yes legoman. I have assurance that I am saved.
You interpret as vengeful I interpret as all loving. Let's agree to disagree. I am not waiting for you to save me through your beliefs. We have Christ for that.
No, I don't interpret anything as vengeful. God is loving and He is just. I read the scriptures for what they plainly say. The words are not mine. They belong to Jesus, the Son of God.
"36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” (John 3:36)
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46)
I can't save you anymore than you can save me, but it is my prayer that you will come to accept the word of God for what it says, and not for what you want it to say.
Agreeing to disagree is a good thing. I wish you the best.
Christians have assurance of their salvation. It's not something we have to wonder about. When we obey the gospel, we are "in Christ." We are saved.
Hebrews 5:9 "9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him
Acts 5:32 "32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also isthe Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
Couple these scriptures with 1 John.
John tells us that if we walk in the light as He is in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. (Verse 7)
John alsoo says that if we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us and to cleanse us from all righteousness.
Read Paul's letters. He addresses them to "to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus," "to the saints who are at Ephesus, and who are faithful in Christ Jesus." Paul is writing to SAVED people.
So, yes legoman. I have assurance that I am saved.
Katie
Katie, I don't doubt your assurance. But you didn't address the point.
You quote Matt 25:46 as proof that people go into eternal punishment. Yet by your literal interpretation of the passage we must conclude that those who don't feed the hungry, take care of the sick, or visit people in prison will go into eternal punishment.
So when was the last time you visited someone in prison? Why should anyone believe you when you say they will go into eternal punishment if you yourself claim salvation but don't visit people in prison?
(perhaps you do visit people in prison, I don't know. But I know many who donot.)
Matthew 25: 46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.' (YLT)
God bless and peace.
Hi Shana,
The same exact Greek word for eternal life is used for eternal punishment. Do you think that eternal life is temporary? How about God? Is He eternal? Will He last forever and ever?
The majority of the world's best Greek scholars chose to use the word "eternal" when translating from the Greek to English. Only one chooses life age-during, and that is the YLT.
To me, age-during says "enduring," which is forever. When something endures, it goes on and on. But, I am not a Greek language expert, and even if I were, I wouldn't presume to know more than these men who have translated the Bible over the centuries.
From everything I have read, eternal means no beginning, no end. But again, I am not a Hebrew or Greek language expert. I'm just a Bible reader who believes the plain language of the Bible.
From biblos.com
New International Version (1984)
Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Katie, I don't doubt your assurance. But you didn't address the point.
You quote Matt 25:46 as proof that people go into eternal punishment. Yet by your literal interpretation of the passage we must conclude that those who don't feed the hungry, take care of the sick, or visit people in prison will go into eternal punishment.
So when was the last time you visited someone in prison? Why should anyone believe you when you say they will go into eternal punishment if you yourself claim salvation but don't visit people in prison?
(perhaps you do visit people in prison, I don't know. But I know many who donot.)
Hello legoman,
Read the context of the passage. Who and what is Jesus speaking about? He is speaking about the judgement, when the Son of Man comes in His glory.
He says in verse 40, "to the extent you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me."
Jesus is talking about how His disciples, His brothers, and how He expects them to be treated.
Verse 31-33 tells us that Jesus will sit on His throne. He will separate the nations from one another, sheep on the right, goats on the left.
To the sheep (the saved) He will say, "inherit the kingdom prepared for you."
It is to the goats He says, "I was a stranger, and you did not invite me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me, sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me."
It is to the goats He says, "to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these (referring back to His brethren), you did not do it to Me.
I don't visit anyone in prison. I don't know anyone in prison. If I did, I would visit them, especially if they were a brother or sister in Christ.
I believe Jesus was talking about His brethren, and if a christian is in prison, we are to visit them.
Will my not visiting strangers in prison send me to eternal torment? Nope! I don't believe so. I don't believe Jesus was telling us here that we need to visit prisons and people we don't know. That may be your interpretation, but it is not mine.
Remember, Christians are not perfect people lego. Christians sin just like unbelievers do. The difference is that we have the precious blood of Jesus to cover our imperfections.
That's my position, for what it's worth. $0.02
None of this changes the fact,
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Eternal punishment will last as long as eternal life does. The same word is used for eternal punishment as it is for eternal life. Eternal is forever and ever.
The same exact Greek word for eternal life is used for eternal punishment. Do you think that eternal life is temporary? How about God? Is He eternal? Will He last forever and ever?
The majority of the world's best Greek scholars chose to use the word "eternal" when translating from the Greek to English. Only one chooses life age-during, and that is the YLT.
Which is why UR's have to use the YLT when they do. They have to distance themselves from the truth however, whenever, with every ounce of strain of effort as possible.
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I wish you the best.
