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The power of Baptism is the water connected to God's Word. No other event in the NT (excluding the end of the world) has the Triune God appeared that people witnessed. And to relegate that to a meer dedication on behalf of humanities conscience? ... remarkable to the point of almost being uncomprehensible.
The sending of the Holy Spirit to dwell within humans is not some mere dedication. That's when a person is born in the Spirit. That is the dividing line where one enters eternal life.
The baptism in water for Jesus is important because it fulfilled the purpose of John the Baptist's ministry (John 1:29-35) in identifying the Messiah to Israel. That's it. The practice of water baptism has no relevance for us today - other than maybe a testimony to one's dedication to Christ.
To answer for my myself. No, I don't think that Jesus was insulting Nicodemus by saying something he already knew but that he was telling him it was not enough to be born of the flesh only and certainly not born again of the flesh. After all it was Nicodemus, the great teacher of the law, that thought Jesus was a "doit" by saying "you must be born again". Jesus was only telling him rebirth of flesh was not what He meant, by contrasting the two types of birth, one of the flesh and one of the Spirit.
Yes, Jesus is contrasting the two types of birth -- one of the flesh termed "born of the flesh," and one of the Spirit termed "born of water and the Spirit."
John 7:38-39 - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, `From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.' " But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
This would make the born of water and born of the Spirit synonymous.
No, it doesn't. "Living water" is not the same thing as "water." That's why "living" was added -- to point out the difference. "Water" is John 3:5 is just that -- water.
No, it doesn't. "Living water" is not the same thing as "water." That's why "living" was added -- to point out the difference. "Water" is John 3:5 is just that -- water.
It most definitely IS baptism via the water.
I don't understand how you can hold that position when Jesus clearly states who is linked with baptism via water.
Acts 1:4 - for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
... which was repeated by Peter.
Acts 11:16 - "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, `John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
Even when John the Baptist baptized Jesus - he confirmed this fact.
Mark 1:8 - "I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
Water baptism was the ministry of John the Baptist as explained here.
John 1:33 - "I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, `He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.'
I don't know how much clearer to give it to you. Ultimately it's a faith issue on whether or not you want to receive it.
I don't understand how you can hold that position when Jesus clearly states who is linked with baptism via water.
Acts 1:4 - for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
... which was repeated by Peter.
Acts 11:16 - "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, `John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
Even when John the Baptist baptized Jesus - he confirmed this fact.
Mark 1:8 - "I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
Water baptism was the ministry of John the Baptist as explained here.
John 1:33 - "I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, `He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.'
I don't know how much clearer to give it to you. Ultimately it's a faith issue on whether or not you want to receive it.
Yes, all these scriptures are true. I just don't know where people got the idea that somehow there's a contrast between baptism in water and baptism with the Holy Spirit, when clearly they are the same thing. Not that John's baptism is the same. John's baptism was with water only but Jesus would baptism with water and the Holy Spirit. Not of these verses eliminates water from the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
The sending of the Holy Spirit to dwell within humans is not some mere dedication. That's when a person is born in the Spirit. That is the dividing line where one enters eternal life.
The baptism in water for Jesus is important because it fulfilled the purpose of John the Baptist's ministry (John 1:29-35) in identifying the Messiah to Israel. That's it. The practice of water baptism has no relevance for us today - other than maybe a testimony to one's dedication to Christ.
No revelance ....
Is the Great Commision to make disciples of all nations no revelance... Matthew 28:19
Is Jesus' ressurection no revelance .... 1 Peter 3:20-21
Is being sanctified, justified has no revelance .... 1 Corinthians 6:11
Is the church being made " as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless " no revelance Ephesians 5:25-27
Yes, all these scriptures are true. I just don't know where people got the idea that somehow there's a contrast between baptism in water and baptism with the Holy Spirit, when clearly they are the same thing. Not that John's baptism is the same. John's baptism was with water only but Jesus would baptism with water and the Holy Spirit. Not of these verses eliminates water from the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Scripture for the bold above? Jesus never did water to anyone. Jesus never instructed anyone to do water.
In every Scripture I provided, there's a "but" between the water baptism and the Spirit baptism. That's a contrast. They are two different events by two different people.
No revelance ....
Is the Great Commision to make disciples of all nations no revelance... Matthew 28:19
Is Jesus' ressurection no revelance .... 1 Peter 3:20-21
Is being sanctified, justified has no revelance .... 1 Corinthians 6:11
Is the church being made " as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless " no revelance Ephesians 5:25-27
None of those has anything to do with baptism in water - except for the portion in 1 Peter 3:21 when it says - "not the removal of dirt from the flesh".
Finn,
I don't know if you remember, but once I quoted a theologian who said about Mark 16:16 reguarding baptism. His comment was baptism is neccessary (Whoever believes andisbaptizedwill be saved), but not absolutly neccessary ( but whoever does not believewill be condemned.)
Have you forgotten the OP I have reguarding the 5 sola's? I have never stated that instances like the man on the cross was not saved. You say I have a misunderstanding of Mark 16:16 . so who are you attempting to claim doesn't understand ... me or the person who spoke it?
Whoever believesandisbaptizedwill be saved
but whoever does not believewill be condemned
Have you considered that the misunderstanding comes from the fact that scripture teaches both are the truth:
Whoever believesandisbaptizedwill be saved
and 200 verses say you are saved through faith.
Now, concerning Acts 2:38 doesn't say the baptism takes away the sins.
Can you tell me how
" It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ 1 Peter 3:20-21
and the church is made " as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless " Ephesians 5:25-27
if forgiveness of sins doesn't occure?
Baptism isn't simple water only for the dedication of meer rituals.
The power of Baptism is the water connected to God's Word. No other event in the NT (excluding the end of the world) has the Triune God appeared that people witnessed. And to relegate that to a meer dedication on behalf of humanities conscience? ... remarkable to the point of almost being uncomprehensible.
I don't believe that the reformed theology proponents understands\ comprehends the magnitude and ramifications of it's rejection of what baptism does.
I didn't say forgiveness of sins doesn't occur at all, I said the verse in question does not say you have to be water baptized in order to have your sins forgiven. I said it means that you should get baptized because your sins have been forgiven. It is an act of obedience. Having said that. I think all Christians should get baptized. It is a wonderful experience, and the Bible encourages believers to make a public announcement o f their faith, and baptism accomplished that.
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