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Col. 1:16 states that Story book god created everything!
That being the case ALL EVIL is created by the Story book god!
Blaming a mythical spirit angel being that can't even legitimately be found in your Story book Land is another lie because the credit for ALL evil goes to this Story book god (Col. 1:16)
Are you now saying there are 2 Creators and your Story book god lied that others made evil when it said that only it did? (Col. 1:16)
I would also be most pleased for you to start another Thread and show me your alleged legitimate evidence that your naughty fallen ex-heavenly angel spirit bwing called by the name of Satan literally exists even in Story book land?
My YLT & E, Diaglott make NO mention of the term Satan in its narrative?
So it doesn't exist in those Story book versions, so how come it appeared in yours?
If you would start a thread about the accuracy/truth of the word "satan" in scripture, or the accuracy of the Bible, I think many would be happy to discuss it.
Let's look at Paul again.
Paul had a problem with spiritual pride. (Incidentially, so did Job.)
God allowed satan to buffet Paul in order to make Paul more humble.
Paul asked God to remove the buffeting, but God said, "No. My grace is sufficient for you."
So satan served a purpose, to destroy Paul's pride by abasing him.
In the end, Paul was more Christ-like, and God's plan of good for Paul won out.
Paul knew a lot about resisting the devil. He also knew that the devil served a purpose, and that people could be "turned over to satan for the destruction of the flesh so that the spirit might be saved." And in fact, in the end, the young man was better for it.
As far as making mistakes, I don't think God wants us to make mistakes any more than your piano teacher did. It would be better to get things right the first time, no? Neither does God want us to sin. Of course not!
Yet He knows that man wants his freedom, and freedom means learning that you can't live a life of victory with Him (His Spirit in us).
So, God does allow us to fall down. In fact, He knows we will fall down. And He knows that man will cry out to God in his despiration, if not earlier.
God wants us to trust in/rely on Him. That's what the whole Bible is about.
SO,
evil (satan) is necessary only in that, since man wants to be free, and his idea of freedom gets him into trouble, the evil lets him know where he ends up when he tries to go it alone.
I don't think I can explain it any better than this. It all seems quite clear to me now, but apparently it isn't clear to everyone.
Peace,
brian
Brian, here's the thing. I agree that God wants us to trust in and rely on God. And all the rest of what you're saying is simply the idea that God is allowing us to reap what we sow ... that is a basic law governing our dominion here on earth. And that God uses that law to bring about good for us, is a given. I AGREE with all of that. The conversation could end there, as far as I'm concerned.
But NONE OF THAT leads us to the conclusion that God required, intended, created or commanded evil in order to accomplish God's purpose, which is what you guys keep saying. And that is what is being disputed in this thread.
You have been saying that God required evil as a part of our experience in order to accomplish God's purpose. But then you say, no, God does not want us to do evil. I do not understand how you don't see the contradiction in what you're saying, Shana.
Quote:
Let's look at Paul again.
Paul had a problem with spiritual pride. (Incidentially, so did Job.)
God allowed satan to buffet Paul in order to make Paul more humble.
Paul asked God to remove the buffeting, but God said, "No. My grace is sufficient for you."
So satan served a purpose, to destroy Paul's pride by abasing him.
In the end, Paul was more Christ-like, and God's plan of good for Paul won out.
Paul knew a lot about resisting the devil. He also knew that the devil served a purpose, and that people could be "turned over to satan for the destruction of the flesh so that the spirit might be saved." And in fact, in the end, the young man was better for it.
As far as making mistakes, I don't think God wants us to make mistakes any more than your piano teacher did. It would be better to get things right the first time, no? Neither does God want us to sin. Of course not!
Yet He knows that man wants his freedom, and freedom means learning that you can't live a life of victory with Him (His Spirit in us).
So, God does allow us to fall down. In fact, He knows we will fall down. And He knows that man will cry out to God in his despiration, if not earlier.
God wants us to trust in/rely on Him. That's what the whole Bible is about.
SO,
evil (satan) is necessary only in that, since man wants to be free, and his idea of freedom gets him into trouble, the evil lets him know where he ends up when he tries to go it alone.
I don't think I can explain it any better than this. It all seems quite clear to me now, but apparently it isn't clear to everyone.
Peace,
brian
It's quite clear to me, brian. Thank you.
Pleroo, don't you see how Jesus benefitted from the experience of evil that was done to Him. Don't you see how we all benefitted from this experience? It isn't that God wants us to be evil people, but He give us the experience to teach us to hate evil, for example, to know that it is not a part of His true nature. He is all that is good, holy, righteous, but we learn this by way of contrast, for example. I know that God is love but I don't really fathom the nature of this love until I see and understand that He loves me even though I have been opposed to Him, even when I have become His enemy, He still loves me. He is not only my Creator, but my Savior. What a wonderful thing to realize!! God loves His enemies. He loves even when we hate Him and spit on Him, and reject Him, and curse Him. He still loves us. Agape- What kind of love it this? And we are to have the same kind of love towards others. We must learn this and the experience of evil teaches us this. God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 02-18-2013 at 08:13 AM..
Evil is here and He has not removed it. It must be here for a reason, Pleroo. Where do you think it came from? Why does He continue to allow it to exist and cause all of this havoc and distress? If you place a child into the path of a car or even see what will happen, and you have the power to stop what will happen, yet you do nothing to prevent it, are you not responsible for what has happened? God bless and peace.
Pleroo, don't you see how Jesus benefitted from the experience of evil that was done to Him. Don't you see how we all benefitted from this experience? It isn't that God wants us to be evil people, but He give us the experience to teach us to hate evil, for example, to know that it is not a part of His true nature. He is all that is good, holy, righteous, but we learn this by way of contrast, for example. I know that God is love but I don't really fathom the nature of this love until I see and understand that He loves me even though I have been opposed to Him, even when I have become His enemy, He still loves me. He is not only my Creator, but my Savior. What a wonderful thing to realize!! God loves His enemies. He loves even when we hate Him and spit on Him, and reject Him, and curse Him. He still loves us. Agape- What kind of love it this? And we are to have the same kind of love towards others. We must learn this and the experience of evil teaches us this. God bless and peace.
Going with another analogy that I've heard Shana: How do people learn to spot counterfeit money? It's not by studying counterfeit bills, it's by studying the real thing. Then, if a counterfeit bill crosses their path they instantly recognize that it's not the real thing. I do not believe experiencing evil is necessary in order to recognize Love.
Hi Pleroo, I don't believe that we would know Him as our Savior unless we had become sinners and been in the condition that would manifest this type of love for us. When I teach my students, I sometimes use contrast to get a point across. For example let's contrast a complete sentence with an incomplete sentence or let's contrast fictional text and nonfictional text and they are able to grasp what I am trying to teach much better, from my experience. God bless and peace.
Evil is here and He has not removed it. It must be here for a reason, Pleroo. Where do you think it came from? Why does He continue to allow it to exist and cause all of this havoc and distress? If you place a child into the path of a car or even see what will happen, and you have the power to stop what will happen, yet you do nothing to prevent it, are you not responsible for what has happened? God bless and peace.
Evil is here because WE are here, Shana, and because we lost sight of God. I do not equate God with a parent who puts a child in front of a car. I equate God with a parent who allows their child to have the freedom to make good choices (in our case, to rely on God), but allows them to experience the consequences when they don't. What option would that parent have, Shana? They could take their freedom away and lock them in a room, perhaps? Of course not. But to allow the child to experience making a good choice, does not mean you want them to experience making a BAD choice.
On the other hand, you believe God is a parent who purposely put that child in the path of something evil so that the child would know that the parent is love. No, that does not make sense to me.
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Maybe I WILL hold you responsible. 
).
