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Why are you posting in this thread then? This thread is about whether the OT is flawed or not.
I am evidence that if you seek you won't necessarily find, another flaw in the Bible.
You asked me how do I convince others that the bible is not flawed ?, I said I'm not here to convince others of that. The OP is the OT flawed ?.
Faith is, by definition, belief that is not based on proof. The reason I put one foot in front of the other is because I have proven to myself from previous experience that my legs will hold me up, except of course when I had my knee replacement. After that, I would not put one leg in front of the other until I had tested it.
"I don't know" is a cop out? Would you rather I say that the Flying Spaghetti Monster did it?
No the reason you put one foot in front of the other is because you learnt to walk, which took belief that if you put one foot in front of the other you would not only remain on you feet but move too.
You can say what you want, but you have faith. You need to get beyond it means having faith in God, I'm sure there are some daft enough to believe in the FSM.
No the reason you put one foot in front of the other is because you learnt to walk, which took belief that if you put one foot in front of the other you would not only remain on you feet but move too.
You can say what you want, but you have faith. You need to get beyond it means having faith in God, I'm sure there are some daft enough to believe in the FSM.
Funny that you would make such a definitive statement about me without even knowing me, and contrary to the definition of faith as well. Why do theists continue to not only refuse to accept proven, widely accepted, science, but also to redefine words?
Yes, I learned to walk, which established a precedent that was developed from experience and the reliability of biological science. It's not faith but a reasonable expectation derived from concrete evidence of trial and error. I'm sorry that Christianity must rely upon a historically flawed book, but that's the facts.
Amaznjohn;28262418]Because, when your objective is to try to "save" everyone, I don't feel that you're doing what's best for them. You might have the best of intentions, but IMO, explaining to someone that they need to forget logic and reason and rely solely on faith, or that their friends and/or family could burn in Hell for eternity, or that if they screw up God might punish you, isn't what's best for anyone.
Jesus came to seek and save the lost. He passed the reigns onto His followers. Christians take the job seriously. I'm afraid you'll have to learn to live with it. Unfortunately, some people have a crummy way of delivering the salvation message. No one has the right to tell anyone that their family members are burning in hell. Jesus is the judge. Not man.
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I have a good life. I've worked hard and treated people the way I feel I would like to be treated. I take credit for the good things I've caused to happen and the blame for the bad things I've done.
Sounds like you are a good person, but you're still a sinner. We all are. Even the best of us. We all need a savior. We all need forgiveness.
Faith is a choice. It's a decision one makes to have or not have it. Some say it's a gift. I believe that is partly true, but I also know that we are commanded to have faith. The Bible says faith comes by hearing the word of God. That's why I say faith is a choice we make. We either decide to have it or we don't. We can choose to listen to God's word or not.
Quote:
Yes, it would really matter, or I wouldn't have asked you. You're not going to use THIS cop-out are you?
Yup, I am. Why bother? It wouldn't make a difference.
I knew this guy, probably one of the most intelligent people I've ever known. He was just like you. He was all about logic and reason. (He was also the greatest Trivia player I've ever known). And then one day, just like that, he decided he was going to take his chances and believe what the Bible said. That was thirty-five years ago. He is one of the best christian men I know today.
Funny that you would make such a definitive statement about me without even knowing me, and contrary to the definition of faith as well. Why do theists continue to not only refuse to accept proven, widely accepted, science, but also to redefine words?
Yes, I learned to walk, which established a precedent that was developed from experience and the reliability of biological science. It's not faith but a reasonable expectation derived from concrete evidence of trial and error. I'm sorry that Christianity must rely upon a historically flawed book, but that's the facts.
I don't have to know you to know that you have faith( its just not in God)its part of our make up. I do not rely on the bible historically in any way shape or form, its a spiritual book .
No the reason you put one foot in front of the other is because you learnt to walk, which took belief that if you put one foot in front of the other you would not only remain on you feet but move too.
You can say what you want, but you have faith. You need to get beyond it means having faith in God, I'm sure there are some daft enough to believe in the FSM.
Right, we all have faith. Most of us believe things subconsciously, not even aware of how they are ruling our lives. We've built a case in our subconscious based on how we perceive our experiences that tell us something is true, even if believing that thing is harmful or impedes us. Some people believe they're unlovable or stupid or unlucky or unforgivable, or that they can't trust others, or that if they don't look out for number one, no one will. And what we are believing determines how we treat ourselves and others, how we live our lives, and what we become. Life is all about faith.
Pertaining to the thread, some people believe the OT is flawless and they base their understanding of the nature of God and our existence on a literal reading of it. Many of those same people believe that if the bible isn't flawless then they have no basis for believing God exists. They hang their faith on a book and if an honest assessment of that book forces them to face it's inconsistencies, then atheism is the only reasonable option.
Right, we all have faith. Most of us believe things subconsciously, not even aware of how they are ruling our lives. We've built a case in our subconscious based on how we perceive our experiences that tell us something is true, even if believing that thing is harmful or impedes us. Some people believe they're unlovable or stupid or unlucky or unforgivable, or that they can't trust others, or that if they don't look out for number one, no one will. And what we are believing determines how we treat ourselves and others, how we live our lives, and what we become. Life is all about faith.
Pertaining to the thread, some people believe the OT is flawless and they base their understanding of the nature of God and our existence on a literal reading of it. Many of those same people believe that if the bible isn't flawless then they have no basis for believing God exists. They hang their faith on a book and if an honest assessment of that book forces them to face it's inconsistencies, then atheism is the only reasonable option.
Jesus came to seek and save the lost. He passed the reigns onto His followers. Christians take the job seriously. I'm afraid you'll have to learn to live with it. Unfortunately, some people have a crummy way of delivering the salvation message. No one has the right to tell anyone that their family members are burning in hell. Jesus is the judge. Not man.
Sounds like you are a good person, but you're still a sinner. We all are. Even the best of us. We all need a savior. We all need forgiveness.
Faith is a choice. It's a decision one makes to have or not have it. Some say it's a gift. I believe that is partly true, but I also know that we are commanded to have faith. The Bible says faith comes by hearing the word of God. That's why I say faith is a choice we make. We either decide to have it or we don't. We can choose to listen to God's word or not.
Yup, I am. Why bother? It wouldn't make a difference.
I knew this guy, probably one of the most intelligent people I've ever known. He was just like you. He was all about logic and reason. (He was also the greatest Trivia player I've ever known). And then one day, just like that, he decided he was going to take his chances and believe what the Bible said. That was thirty-five years ago. He is one of the best christian men I know today.
Like I said, it's a choice.
Peace,
Katie
You seem like a reasonable person. I agree that faith is a choice. Unfortunately many of your Christian cohorts don't feel the same. I feel that you, I, and anyone can choose whether or not to believe in things that lack evidence. Though I don't feel this is a smart or easy thing to do, I do feel that one can ignore logic and reason and make such a choice. However I don't believe this would be a typical choice because I believe most Christians are programmed as a child, through various means, to come to be Christians, similar to Muslims and Hindus. They too ignore the flaws in their gods and Holy books.
Right, we all have faith. Most of us believe things subconsciously, not even aware of how they are ruling our lives. We've built a case in our subconscious based on how we perceive our experiences that tell us something is true, even if believing that thing is harmful or impedes us. Some people believe they're unlovable or stupid or unlucky or unforgivable, or that they can't trust others, or that if they don't look out for number one, no one will. And what we are believing determines how we treat ourselves and others, how we live our lives, and what we become. Life is all about faith.
Pertaining to the thread, some people believe the OT is flawless and they base their understanding of the nature of God and our existence on a literal reading of it. Many of those same people believe that if the bible isn't flawless then they have no basis for believing God exists. They hang their faith on a book and if an honest assessment of that book forces them to face it's inconsistencies, then atheism is the only reasonable option.
Belief and faith aren't synonymous. There may be times that faith is a component of our decisions, but these shouldn't be critical decisions that could result in harm or are important to one's lifestyle. For example, I might have faith that a stranger is giving me accurate directions. But, if I'm trying to make it to a job interview on time, unless I have no choice, I will confirm these directions. As I asked before, why would someone make potential life-changing decisions on evidence, but make decisions on one's eternity with only faith?
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Would you rather I say that the Flying Spaghetti Monster did it?
Why bother? It wouldn't make a difference. 
