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OK, I get that you believe we only have one God but the writers of the bible did not understand Him correctly as you do. You claim the bible is inspired but not correct when the "chirst in you" makes you feel it is wrong or does not line up with what you are convinced is the way God has to be as you understand Jesus revealed it. Also since you acknowledge the Israelites had a God named Jehovah and you reject Him as God, and based on the claim you continue to make that there is only one God are you saying you reject God altogether?
The thread I see here is the bible is often wrong and what you feel over-rides anything you don't believe in the bible. I know you don't want it worded that way but that is what your saying over and over.
The point is you do not take what I would call a normal, traditional view of belief in scripture. Most believe it is all correct and we must conform our faith to what it teaches since it is God's word. You seem to believe the bible must mean what you feel from what you call "christ in you" because you understand God better than the people who wrote the bible and must correct their misunderstanding.
The Bible is never wrong, and Mystic did not say that or even that it "is often wrong" - maybe you need to reread?
The only problem with the Bible is man's ignorance in understanding God's word and therefore frequently misinterpreting it.
No you are not correct at all in your attempts to understand my views. you insist on placing them into YOUR preferred perspective to be dismissed. We believe in the same God because there is only ONE. We believe in the Same Christ because there is only ONE. We believe Christ is the Living Word of God. We believe the same scripture is God INSPIRED (but NOT DICTATED) . . . meaning they had to be interpreted by the receivers of the inspirations using THEIR knowledge, understanding and beliefs about God. What we disagree significantly about is what God's motivations were and are . . . and what was and was NOT attributable to Him from the lessons, stories, fables, parables, and recordings in the scriptures.
No . . . the OT is scripture inspired by God . . . just NOT infallible or inerrant BECAUSE the inspirations were interpreted by ignorant and superstitious men with savage beliefs about a vengeful human parody of God who required blood sacrifices to appease His wrath.Their beliefs do not accurately reflect or describe Christ's Father our loving God as revealed and exemplified by Jesus. They do not accurately reflect or describe the God JESUS followed.No . . . I interpret the scripture using the "mind of Christ" and the Christ in ALL of us asking WWJT. Anything that is NOT compatible with what Christ taught and did is NOT accurate and needs to be reconsidered. If it is interpreted using the motives and human weakness attributed to Jehovah by our ignorant savage ancestors . . . it must be reinterpreted using the motives and lack of weaknesses of Christ and His loving Father. God IS love. That cannot be emphasized enough. God does not just give love or feel love . . . God IS Love itself. When we produce the feelings of agape love . . . we are producing a potential part of God. That is why we are commanded to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. We are strengthening our embryo Spirit to mature in God's love.We can only serve the ONE God that exists and the ONE Christ that exists, Dennis. There ARE no others! We can be right or wrong about what we believe about them . . . but we have no real choice in the matter.
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Originally Posted by DennisWayne
OK, I get that you believe we only have one God but the writers of the bible did not understand Him correctly as you do.
You insist on making this about me. It is NOT. The writers of the OT did not understand God correctly as JESUS did and tried to explain to them. They (like you) would not accept what He said about God and killed Him for it. You don't want to kill me for defending Christ's Father our loving God from the same ignorance and savage misunderstanding . . . but you do want to make it all about me in any case. It is NOT. It is about CHRIST and HIS FATHER . . .our loving God.
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You claim the bible is inspired but not correct when the "Christ in you" makes you feel it is wrong or does not line up with what you are convinced is the way God has to be as you understand Jesus revealed it.
Jesus was unambiguous. It is your merging of Jesus with the savage beliefs about Jehovah the jealous, vengeful god of blood sacrifices. There was no vengeance or jealousy in Christ! Yet you insist it was in His Father. But Christ said when you see me you see the Father! Believing these contradictory things in scripture is what makes you double-minded. It is inevitable when you mistakenly believe the bible is infallible and inerrant. Only Christ is.
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Also since you acknowledge the Israelites had a God named Jehovah and you reject Him as God, and based on the claim you continue to make that there is only one God are you saying you reject God altogether?
I do NOT reject GOD . . . why can you not get this straight. I reject the stupid, ignorant, superstitious and savage BELIEFS ABOUT God of our primitive ancestors that JESUS tried to correct . . . but was crucified for instead.
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The thread I see here is the bible is often wrong and what you feel over-rides anything you don't believe in the bible. I know you don't want it worded that way but that is what your saying over and over.
The Bible is what it is . . . God inspired writing ABOUT God. It is NOT God. To try to make it infallible and inerrant is to make it God . . . because ONLY God is infallible and inerrant. Christ is God's Living Word and is infallible . . . NOT what our ignorant savage ancestors believed ABOUT Jehovah. I can intellectually evaluate what is in the bible and compare it to CHRIST (no feelings needed) and see the contradictions and inconsistencies between our ignorant ancestors' BELIEFS about God and CHRIST's example and revelations of the Father. You could too . . . but you refuse to do so. Because Christ abides with us . . . we ALL can use what God has "written in our hearts" to "feel" the same things. We just need to be sincere and NOT override our hearts with "precepts and doctrines of men" . . . excusing what "feels" Evil and claiming it MUST be Good . . . because "God did it" or "God wants it" or "God's ways are not our ways" or "God's justice demands it because of His Holiness" . . . or whatever.
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The point is you do not take what I would call a normal, traditional view of belief in scripture. Most believe it is all correct and we must conform our faith to what it teaches since it is God's word.
"And that is why you fail, grasshopper." ONLY CHRIST is God's Living Word and infallible and inerrant.
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You seem to believe the bible must mean what you feel from what you call "Christ in you" because you understand God better than the people who wrote the bible and must correct their misunderstanding.
Again . . . it is NOT about ME! It is about CHRIST! It must mean what CHRIST meant . . . because CHRIST knew better than those who wrote the Bible (and those who believed it 100% as in John 8). CHRIST corrects their misunderstanding and I follow CHRIST.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 04-20-2013 at 12:50 PM..
You insist on making this about me. It is NOT. The writers of the OT did not understand God correctly as JESUS did and tried to explain to them. They (like you) would not accept what He said about God and killed Him for it. You don't want to kill me for defending Christ's Father our loving God from the same ignorance and savage misunderstanding . . . but you do want to make it all about me in any case. It is NOT. It is about CHRIST and HIS FATHER . . .our loving God. Jesus was unambiguous. It is your merging of Jesus with the savage beliefs about Jehovah the jealous, vengeful god of blood sacrifices. There was no vengeance or jealousy in Christ! Yet you insist it was in His Father. But Christ said when you see me you see the Father! Believing these contradictory things in scripture is what makes you double-minded. It is inevitable when you mistakenly believe the bible is infallible and inerrant. Only Christ is. I do NOT reject GOD . . . why can you not get this straight. I reject the stupid, ignorant, superstitious and savage BELIEFS ABOUT God of our primitive ancestors that JESUS tried to correct . . . but was crucified for instead.
The Bible is what it is . . . God inspired writing ABOUT God. It is NOT God. To try to make it infallible and inerrant is to make it God . . . because ONLY God is infallible and inerrant. Christ is God's Living Word and is infallible . . . NOT what our ignorant savage ancestors believed ABOUT Jehovah. I can intellectually evaluate what is in the bible and compare it to CHRIST (no feelings needed) and see the contradictions and inconsistencies between our ignorant ancestors' BELIEFS about God and CHRIST's example and revelations of the Father. You could too . . . but you refuse to do so. Because Christ abides with us . . . we ALL can use what God has "written in our hearts" to "feel" the same things. We just need to be sincere and NOT override our hearts with "precepts and doctrines of men" . . . excusing what "feels" Evil and claiming it MUST be Good . . . because "God did it" or "God wants it" or "God's ways are not our ways" or "God's justice demands it because of His Holiness" . . . or whatever.
"And that is why you fail, grasshopper." ONLY CHRIST is God's Living Word and infallible and inerrant. Again . . . it is NOT about ME! It is about CHRIST! It must mean what CHRIST meant . . . because CHRIST knew better than those who wrote the Bible (and those who believed it 100% as in John 8). CHRIST corrects their misunderstanding and I follow CHRIST.
Mystic, it is all about you. I am trying to understand what you believe. If you cannot understand that then there is not point in attempting to discuss this with you. I will let it go until you can understand that I am trying to learn what you believe. Sorry if that's too much to ask.
Goodbye!
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
You insist on making this about me. It is NOT. The writers of the OT did not understand God correctly as JESUS did and tried to explain to them. They (like you) would not accept what He said about God and killed Him for it. You don't want to kill me for defending Christ's Father our loving God from the same ignorance and savage misunderstanding . . . but you do want to make it all about me in any case. It is NOT. It is about CHRIST and HIS FATHER . . .our loving God. Jesus was unambiguous. It is your merging of Jesus with the savage beliefs about Jehovah the jealous, vengeful god of blood sacrifices. There was no vengeance or jealousy in Christ! Yet you insist it was in His Father. But Christ said when you see me you see the Father! Believing these contradictory things in scripture is what makes you double-minded. It is inevitable when you mistakenly believe the bible is infallible and inerrant. Only Christ is. I do NOT reject GOD . . . why can you not get this straight. I reject the stupid, ignorant, superstitious and savage BELIEFS ABOUT God of our primitive ancestors that JESUS tried to correct . . . but was crucified for instead.
The Bible is what it is . . . God inspired writing ABOUT God. It is NOT God. To try to make it infallible and inerrant is to make it God . . . because ONLY God is infallible and inerrant. Christ is God's Living Word and is infallible . . . NOT what our ignorant savage ancestors believed ABOUT Jehovah. I can intellectually evaluate what is in the bible and compare it to CHRIST (no feelings needed) and see the contradictions and inconsistencies between our ignorant ancestors' BELIEFS about God and CHRIST's example and revelations of the Father. You could too . . . but you refuse to do so. Because Christ abides with us . . . we ALL can use what God has "written in our hearts" to "feel" the same things. We just need to be sincere and NOT override our hearts with "precepts and doctrines of men" . . . excusing what "feels" Evil and claiming it MUST be Good . . . because "God did it" or "God wants it" or "God's ways are not our ways" or "God's justice demands it because of His Holiness" . . . or whatever.
"And that is why you fail, grasshopper." ONLY CHRIST is God's Living Word and infallible and inerrant. Again . . . it is NOT about ME! It is about CHRIST! It must mean what CHRIST meant . . . because CHRIST knew better than those who wrote the Bible (and those who believed it 100% as in John 8). CHRIST corrects their misunderstanding and I follow CHRIST.
Mystic, it is all about you. I am trying to understand what you believe. If you cannot understand that then there is not point in attempting to discuss this with you. I will let it go until you can understand that I am trying to learn what you believe. Sorry if that's too much to ask.
Goodbye!
Now I'm confused...Mystic has answered your question, several times! What more do you want to know?
Mystic, it is all about you. I am trying to understand what you believe. If you cannot understand that then there is not point in attempting to discuss this with you. I will let it go until you can understand that I am trying to learn what you believe. Sorry if that's too much to ask.
Goodbye!
It might be easier if you when Mystic says, "What Jesus did and tried to teach" that you take to mean what Mystic believes. Because from what I'm getting throughout this thread, you might think that you and Mystic have different beliefs on what Jesus was trying to teach....
You insist on making this about me. It is NOT. The writers of the OT did not understand God correctly as JESUS did and tried to explain to them. They (like you) would not accept what He said about God and killed Him for it. You don't want to kill me for defending Christ's Father our loving God from the same ignorance and savage misunderstanding . . . but you do want to make it all about me in any case. It is NOT. It is about CHRIST and HIS FATHER . . .our loving God. Jesus was unambiguous. It is your merging of Jesus with the savage beliefs about Jehovah the jealous, vengeful god of blood sacrifices. There was no vengeance or jealousy in Christ! Yet you insist it was in His Father. But Christ said when you see me you see the Father! Believing these contradictory things in scripture is what makes you double-minded. It is inevitable when you mistakenly believe the bible is infallible and inerrant. Only Christ is. I do NOT reject GOD . . . why can you not get this straight. I reject the stupid, ignorant, superstitious and savage BELIEFS ABOUT God of our primitive ancestors that JESUS tried to correct . . . but was crucified for instead.
The Bible is what it is . . . God inspired writing ABOUT God. It is NOT God. To try to make it infallible and inerrant is to make it God . . . because ONLY God is infallible and inerrant. Christ is God's Living Word and is infallible . . . NOT what our ignorant savage ancestors believed ABOUT Jehovah. I can intellectually evaluate what is in the bible and compare it to CHRIST (no feelings needed) and see the contradictions and inconsistencies between our ignorant ancestors' BELIEFS about God and CHRIST's example and revelations of the Father. You could too . . . but you refuse to do so. Because Christ abides with us . . . we ALL can use what God has "written in our hearts" to "feel" the same things. We just need to be sincere and NOT override our hearts with "precepts and doctrines of men" . . . excusing what "feels" Evil and claiming it MUST be Good . . . because "God did it" or "God wants it" or "God's ways are not our ways" or "God's justice demands it because of His Holiness" . . . or whatever.
"And that is why you fail, grasshopper." ONLY CHRIST is God's Living Word and infallible and inerrant. Again . . . it is NOT about ME! It is about CHRIST! It must mean what CHRIST meant . . . because CHRIST knew better than those who wrote the Bible (and those who believed it 100% as in John 8). CHRIST corrects their misunderstanding and I follow CHRIST.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisWayne
Mystic, it is all about you. I am trying to understand what you believe. If you cannot understand that then there is not point in attempting to discuss this with you. I will let it go until you can understand that I am trying to learn what you believe. Sorry if that's too much to ask.
Goodbye!
I am explaining what I believe. Did you even read my post? If you want to withdraw because my views make you uncomfortable or challenge your preferred understanding . . . I can understand that. But don't pretend that I am not complying with your request to explain my views. I am doing just that. You seem not to want to accept that the STANDARD for evaluating what is written is Christ . . . NOT ME and definitely not what our ignorant ancestors believed about Jehovah. Jesus tried to tell those who believed the OT 100% that the God they believed in was NOT His Father . . . but the devil. They just tried to kill Him for it.
John 8:40-47 King James Version (KJV)
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Mystic, it is all about you. I am trying to understand what you believe. If you cannot understand that then there is not point in attempting to discuss this with you.
I will let it go until you can understand that I am trying to learn what you believe. Sorry if that's too much to ask.
Goodbye!
No, it is not about Mystic's.
"It's about one-upmanship at his expense, which you have failed to accomplish."
I am explaining what I believe. Did you even read my post? If you want to withdraw because my views make you uncomfortable or challenge your preferred understanding . . . I can understand that. But don't pretend that I am not complying with your request to explain my views. I am doing just that. You seem not to want to accept that the STANDARD for evaluating what is written is Christ . . . NOT ME and definitely not what our ignorant ancestors believed about Jehovah. Jesus tried to tell those who believed the OT 100% that the God they believed in was NOT His Father . . . but the devil. They just tried to kill Him for it.
John 8:40-47 King James Version (KJV)
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
No, Jesus did not try to tell those who believed the OT 100% that the God they believed in was NOT His Father.
On the contrary, Jesus told His opponents that if they had believed Moses, which was a reference to the Torah, the first five books of the Old Testament, that they would have believed Him.
John 5:46 "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me.
If those who opposed Jesus had believed the writings of Moses then they would have recognized Him as the Messiah.
John 8:40-47 has nothing whatsoever to do with what you are claiming. So you don't approve of OT references to God commanding the Israelites to kill their enemies. What you don't understand, or refuse to accept is that the Lamb of God is also the Lion of Judah, and that the first thing Jesus (who is God) is going to do when He returns is to literally slay the armies of the world who oppose His return at the end of the Tribulation. Not symbolically slay them, but literally kill them with the sword from His mouth. At His word they will die. And the number of the slain will be so great that it is said that the vultures will have more than they can eat (Revelation 19:21 which by the way is NT). Revelation 19:17 calls it the great supper of God. An angel will summon the birds of the air to feast on the slain corpses of the battlefield. The language is borrowed from Isaiah 39:17. It describes a great battlefield victory in which Jesus' enemies are defeated.
And that is not just my opinion. That is not just my view. That is the clear revelation of the New Testament. What was recorded by John in the Book of Revelation was given by God the Father to Jesus Christ who communicated it to John who wrote it all down for the blessing of those who read and hear the words of the prophecy.
Jesus who is the Lamb of God is also the Lion of Judah, and He is going to kick a__ when He returns.
Last edited by Michael Way; 04-20-2013 at 06:11 PM..
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