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You can judge all you want, but your judgment is no more or less accurate than the next person's. You really aren't capable of determining whether any professing Christian is truly a Christian or not. You're only capable of determining whether that person interprets the Bible in the same way as you do or not.
Exactly.
Jesus taught men to love and be a light to the world.
Anyone who loves their brother and sister lives in the light, and there is nothing in them to make them stumble.
But we can and should judge what is sound, orthodox Christian doctrine.
Yeah? And who gets to say what's orthodox and what's not? Is a belief in sola fide orthodox? What about a belief in sola scriptura? What about the necessity of baptism? What about the belief in the various Marian doctrines?
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What the Church has believed for 2,000 years.
Well, I have news for you... "There hasn't been just "a Church" for all of that time.
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For example, universal reconciliation is not Christian doctrine. It may sound nice, but it just isn't. And no freedom "to witness to OUR understanding" is going to change that.
To Christians who believe it, it's "Christian doctrine." You're saying that you get to decide which doctrines are "Christian" and which aren't. And no matter what you come up with as "sound, orthodox Christian doctrine," you're going to be disagreeing with millions of other faithful Christians who believe differently.
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If I disagree with a doctrine, that doesn't mean I'm putting you down.
That all depends. You can disagree with a doctrine without putting someone who doesn't accept that doctrine down. However... I challenge you to tell anyone who loves, honors, and looks to Jesus Christ for salvation that he is not "a real Christian" and to do so without putting that person down.
There are people on this forum who seem to be happy only when they are telling everybody else that they're not really Christians. These people make statements about what is and is not "true Christianity" as if they were God Himself. It is absolutely beyond their ability to comprehend that some detail of what they believe could be flawed. There is no room for differences of opinion and the idea that someone else might conceivably be right about something is simply beyond the realm of possibility to them. Every word they type comes out as if it were a provable fact instead of just a statement of belief.
Mystic, our belief systems are too divergent to even have a discussion. We speak different languages.
What does this mean in practical terms? I follow Christ's commands to "love God and each other" daily and repent when I don't. I know Christ revealed the true nature of God through His teaching, life and death. Anything that is not like Christ cannot be true of God. I know Christ saved us from eternal separation from God. I know that if we are sanctified under His love for us all by our attempts to love . . . we are covered by His perfect love and grace. What exactly do we differ on that you believe is so divergent?
"I subscribed to this forum, to fellowship w other Christians, to hear their stories, and see how other's lives have been changed by Christ. I have been pretty shocked to see that most of the threads are, to show other Christians how superior they are, to question other's faith, to try and confuse, or question your beliefs, etc. I know that there are a few non-Christians on the forum, questioning and trying to disprove Christianity, but what about the Christians that are doing this? Shouldn't we be here to edify, support and fellowship w each other? Aren't we all on the same side? As a recently born-again Christian I am starting to see why many Christians and Christian churches get a bad name. Many of these threads are embarrassing. Let's say we forget about all the petty arguments, and focus on our salvation!!"
One of the first and foremost things about this thread is that many members who have been posting here have underscored, as well as validated the very point(s) that the OP in asking: Why does there not exist more unity, more fellowship among members, as opposed to the nonacceptance and questioning, criticizing of other's faith. The OP very clearly acknowledges the fact that there are those on this forum (non-Christians) who engage in such discussions, but in his/her OP is pointing directly to Christians that post here, doing the same.
There are many, many members on the Christianity forum who come from, thus believe in, and adhere to different tenets of Christianity. There exist numerous members of varying denominations on this forum. (And June is not referring to any one, particular denomination at all.) Each individual is entitled to worship, live according to, and hold the opinions that they do pertaining to their particular denomination. --Others do not have to agree with another's denominational beliefs, but must, in their debates around that, do so with respect towards the other member who differs from themselves.
Many members adhere to the same, or similar mindset regarding what constitutes "a Christian." --June is utmost respectful of, and understanding the reasons for that. Others also posses those same mindsets and belief in terms of their denominational stance as regards what they believe makes them "Christians" as well. What needs, (and has needed to exist for a long time) is tolerance of, and acceptance of the fact that there exist variations in the beliefs of varying Christians. What one individual feels constitutes "a Christian" does not necessarily jive with what other individuals believe constitutes "a Christian." --Even taking into account the disparity of beliefs, and reasons that one adheres to their beliefs, such that they feel that they are a Christian is something that needs to be respected, or tolerated, at the very least. To attack another for their belief of what constitutes their identification as being a Christian is not tolerated when it leads to contentious, nasty attacking of other members, due to the fact that their Christian beliefs differ from others.
This is the CHRISTIANITY FORUM.
Irregardless of the differences of opinion that exist regarding who is, or is not a Christian, there needs to exist, within the (encouraged) debates pertaining to this issue, an air of respect. June absolutely, positively, accepts, understands, and realizes that this is a very passionate issue for all Christians possessing stong belief and faith, and the fact that this, in turn, defines who they are as a Christian. June regards Christianity as being far more than that of just being a mere "religion", but rather, that it contributes to, is a part of, and is an integral part of people's core identity, if not their very identity as a person. It IS their identity; who they are. There exist a deeply felt, experienced reverence. That is a good thing. It should be encouraged, supported, accepted, (at the very least, tolerated) stemming from one's own tenets, belief in Christ's words, intent, and subsequent doctrine.
What needs to take place is for members to draw upon their own faith, belief, what exists within their selves respective to their own denominational belief, of what constitutes "a Christian," and to extend that to others. --Not agreeing, granted, but nonetheless, respond from a place of their core Christian beliefs of extending to others that which exists at the core of Christianity and Christ's divine person-hood, and examples.
Lastly, what I'll say is that disagreeing is okay. It's a matter of how one goes about doing so, especially within the context of one's own Christianity; self-identify as a Christian. Those who believe that they are, in fact, Christians have the right to do so. It's not up to the judgement of man. It is a matter of what exits between and within them, and Jesus. In they're upholding the tenets that define.
June very, very, very humbly apologies for what may no doubt, perhaps, has come across as a "lecturing mod cut." It truly isn't meant to be, and sincere, very sincere apologies if she has offended, put off, or in anyway whatsoever offended.
--So true apologies on June's part if she has been "preachy," or in any even remote way has come across as lacking in a sufficient amount of insight or understanding as regards the Christian standpoint of addressing who is, or is not "a Christian" based on how this forum, hopefully, can, should (ideally) run.
Lastly, apologies for the horrendous length of this mod cut!!!
Moderator cut: deleted We should only have differences and come against the non-believers and attackers of God. That should be our common thread. We are called to be soldiers of the cross and our only enemies are those who reject Jesus Christ.
Last edited by june 7th; 05-26-2013 at 07:46 PM..
Reason: The TOS specifies that any references to moderator in posts are not allowed.
I subscribed to this forum, to fellowship w other Christians, to hear their stories, and see how other's lives have been changed by Christ. I have been pretty shocked to see that most of the threads are, to show other Christians how superior they are, to question other's faith, to try and confuse, or question your beliefs, etc. I know that there are a few non-Christians on the forum, questioning and trying to disprove Christianity, but what about the Christians that are doing this? Shouldn't we be here to edify, support and fellowship w each other? Aren't we all on the same side? As a recently born-again Christian I am starting to see why many Christians and Christian churches get a bad name. Many of these threads are embarrassing. Let's say we forget about all the petty arguments, and focus on our salvation!!
Actually, I didn't vote on your poll because none of your options seemed to fit my reasons for being here. I am here primarily for four reasons...
1. Ever since I was a little child (probably under the age of 10), I have been interested in comparative Christianity. I have always enjoyed discussing topics of interest to all Christians, whether they belong to my denomination, to some other denomination or to no denomination at all.
2. The doctrines of my faith are very much misunderstood by the average Christian. I always find it satisfying to be able to educate people as to what we really believe, to dispel the myths and the misconceptions surrounding my religion, and to help people who really have an interest in getting their facts right to do so.
3. Along the same line, I enjoy encouraging people to stop to consider points of view that are different than what they've been raised to believe. I don't believe there is much opportunity for personal growth without a willingness to examine other points of view with an open and inquisitive mind.
4. Whenever I find common ground between myself and another Christian, I am encouraged. While I believe that it is important to God that we believe the truth, I also feel strongly that He is pleased when we can manage to discuss our differences in a spirit of tolerance and love. I am convinced that despite our differences, we can find common ground if we try, and to me this is important.
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