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Old 06-01-2013, 09:37 AM
 
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If Paul were alive today, he'd get shouted down by many in society.

"For the overseer must be above reproach as Godís steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain, 8 but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled, 9 holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict. "

Are you willing to submit your beliefs to sound doctrine and teaching?
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Florida -
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Jesus would still be shouted-down and persecuted by many in society! That's perhaps because 'sound doctrine' (like truth) today is often considered relative --- or at least 'old fashioned.' Consider how often the Bible (our source of doctrine) is dismissed or 'refuted' right here on CD by those who place personal opinion on the same level as scripture. Yes, Paul would likely get shouted-down ... or more likely, 'run-out of many churches on a rail.' ... But, that would not deter him from speaking and living the truth ... nor should it us.
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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Perfectly willing to submit to "sound doctrine, no WAY am I going to submit to doctrines of men and/or creeds that really don't express what is taught in the Bible, much less by the Spirit.
Personally, I think you emphasized the wrong part. "not self-willed" would be more to the point.
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Old 06-01-2013, 03:54 PM
 
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The church which Apostle Paul had was a very small compared to the mass of people today who go to churches and can be very fragmented as many have their own self determination , but are still called to bless the other churches and know Lord Jesus in the other churches , for if leaders and Christians condemn other churches in bias or pride then their authority will be under the authority of antichrist ...........Still leader are called to have sound doctrine which must be authored from Lord Jesus , and leaders will be judged by Lord Jesus by their authority over believers for the souls of these followers of Christ ..........See leaders will be judged by Lord Jesus in the teaching which they bring , by the level of faith and authority in the spirit which they lead , by the control which they bring which can thaw the plan through Holy Spirit , they will be judged by the obedience to the commands of Christ, and the power which is brought or ignored ..........They will be judged by Jesus the tolerance to sin and the rejection of Christ and His blessing, but Jesus has a plan and He expects His churches to do the best that they can with the greatest gift of Jesus gives for His plan ...... As the perfect attribute of a Pastor is Patience ..,.
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:15 PM
 
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No, he was not right. Jesus did not send Him. Jesus sends His true followers as He was sent just as He said; "As the Father sent me that is how I send you. Not only that but He sends His true disciples with the same words and message that is why He said when speaking to the Father," As you sent me into the world so I sent them into the world." In so doing He actually was sending His followers with His mission as the son of God anointed in truth with full authority as was given to Him. This is why He said that He came to do the will of God and His brothers do the same. IE; "My brothers mother and sisters do the will of my heavenly Father."
This is what is to come as Jesus said; "but when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you."
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Old 06-01-2013, 08:36 PM
 
37,122 posts, read 24,983,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
If Paul were alive today, he'd get shouted down by many in society.

"For the overseer must be above reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain, 8 but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled, 9 holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict. "

Are you willing to submit your beliefs to sound doctrine and teaching?
As determined by whom??? The Bible must be read and interpreted spiritually, intelligently and knowledgeably . . . not just read as a natural man reads. The only one we know for sure is Spiritual is Christ and He is judged by no man. He abides with us and we have the "mind of Christ" to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" so that we would need no man to teach us. That is the only sound doctrine that exists and Christ is the ONLY Living Word of God available to us. The scriptures are merely USEFUL for instruction in righteousness when properly divided and interpreted using the "mind of Christ" (WWJT). Tell me, Vizio . . . how comfortable would you be submitting your beliefs to the scrutiny of Jesus the Christ as He lived and presented Himself to the world . . . and NOT the savage and barbaric descriptions of God under the veil of ignorance over the OT??? Do you know WWJT of your views?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Perfectly willing to submit to "sound doctrine, no WAY am I going to submit to doctrines of men and/or creeds that really don't express what is taught in the Bible, much less by the Spirit.
Personally, I think you emphasized the wrong part. "not self-willed" would be more to the point.
Well said, nateswift!
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:09 PM
 
19,952 posts, read 12,840,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
As determined by whom??? The Bible must be read and interpreted spiritually, intelligently and knowledgeably . . . not just read as a natural man reads. The only one we know for sure is Spiritual is Christ and He is judged by no man. He abides with us and we have the "mind of Christ" to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" so that we would need no man to teach us. That is the only sound doctrine that exists and Christ is the ONLY Living Word of God available to us. The scriptures are merely USEFUL for instruction in righteousness when properly divided and interpreted using the "mind of Christ" (WWJT). Tell me, Vizio . . . how comfortable would you be submitting your beliefs to the scrutiny of Jesus the Christ as He lived and presented Himself to the world . . . and NOT the savage and barbaric descriptions of God under the veil of ignorance over the OT??? Do you know WWJT of your views?
How about as its written and not according to your feelings?
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,536,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Perfectly willing to submit to "sound doctrine, no WAY am I going to submit to doctrines of men and/or creeds that really don't express what is taught in the Bible, much less by the Spirit.
Personally, I think you emphasized the wrong part. "not self-willed" would be more to the point.
I agree, and if Jesus were physically present, which he is in the sense of his spirit being IN US, he would be considered a RADICAL by the popular religious establishment just as he was 2000 + years ago. His hard sayings are still hard sayings, particularly to those who do not understand them.
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Whereever we have our RV parked
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Yes Vizio, you are correct. The New Testament's teachings are not PC. Plus the NT is not particularly user friendly to the self righteous who want to trust in their own righteousness to save them or to the prosperity teachers. This is exactly why traditional Christian theology, preaching and teaching are so unpopular today.
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:06 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
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Default It's about more than what is written

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
How about as its written and not according to your feelings?
If the Scripture is unable to change your heart and how you feel then it might as well have not been written. What Christ brought us goes beyond the Bible. Unfortunately, many who claim to be Christian are stuck in the book instead of living in the glory beyond the written page.

When you compare the words of Paul against the words of Jesus, they frequently do not match. While Paul was great in preaching grace, he ignored the message of Jesus which was far more infused with a sense of doing, not just sitting on the premises singing hymns. We are to DO good to our fellow man. We are to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, have mercy on sinners so that we can have hope that our Father will do to us as we have done to others.

It is a message basically ignored by the judgmental churches of today, just as the synagogues of Jesus' time found ways to ignore the Law in favor of their own greed.

The problem is that many are unable understand what the Bible says, but instead they understand it to say what they want it to say. Instead of listening to their heart to which God speaks, they let their hearts remain cold and select the scriptures that reflect the hardness of those hearts.
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