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Old 07-26-2013, 03:40 AM
 
Location: Lakeland, FL
154 posts, read 209,274 times
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Well, thanks for your input. But I was mainly asking those, or we rather who uphold this view. I'm really interested in the response on to why we deserve hell that is preached in so many churches today. It's one of my largest thoughts on hell.
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Old 07-26-2013, 10:33 AM
 
12,030 posts, read 9,344,722 times
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Originally Posted by SkylightMike231 View Post
Well, thanks for your input. But I was mainly asking those, or we rather who uphold this view. I'm really interested in the response on to why we deserve hell that is preached in so many churches today. It's one of my largest thoughts on hell.
Hell: When you die, you die.
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Old 07-26-2013, 11:52 AM
 
45,582 posts, read 27,196,139 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
If it is a lie . . . cite me where scripture or Jesus says the "Holy Spirit WILL NOT contradict the principles and accounts written in the Bible."
I love these arguments -- 'Prove me the Bible says something the way I want it said - otherwise it's a lie'.

C'mon man...


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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
What is your basis for believing this?
Why does a son believe in His father?
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Old 07-26-2013, 12:33 PM
 
63,815 posts, read 40,099,995 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
If it is a lie . . . cite me where scripture or Jesus says the "Holy Spirit WILL NOT contradict the principles and accounts written in the Bible."
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
I love these arguments -- 'Prove me the Bible says something the way I want it said - otherwise it's a lie'.
C'mon man...
Feel free to cite whatever you think supports the claim . . . however it is worded. It does not exist in any shape form or word arrangement. It is ENTIRELY the "precepts and doctrines of men."
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
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Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Despite your ramblings about barbaric ignorant savages in the OT - the Holy Spirit worked in them at a much higher level than you (or I) can imagine.
What is your basis for believing this?
Quote:
Why does a son believe in His father?
A real answer would be appreciated . . . since it is undeniable that they were primitive savages, filled with barbaric beliefs and superstitions and not very knowledgeable about reality (=ignorant).
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Old 07-26-2013, 04:22 PM
 
10,036 posts, read 4,968,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkylightMike231 View Post
I'm really interested in the response on to why we deserve hell that is preached in so many churches today. It's one of my largest thoughts on hell.
Why we 'deserve' hell [biblical hell = common grave of mankind ] is because we sin.

If Adam had never sinned, where would Adam be today ?
According to Scripture there was No death/grave in Eden only Everlasting life on Earth if obedient to God.
Adam was created as a perfectly healthy human with a sound heart,mind and body.
Once Adam broke God's law, then Adam lost his healthy human perfection.
Adam disconnect himself from his source of life.
Kind of like disconnecting a fan from its power source. The unplugged fan slowly winds down until it stops [ dies ].
Adam 'returned' to where Adam started which was the dust of the ground.
Adam started from the dust and Adam 'returned' to the dust.
No life in dust. No life in ashes. Just a state as if one was not conscious.- Ecclesiastes 9 v 5
Since we are Not responsible for what Adam did, God arranged that we could have the opportunity to live even if we sin.
If we could stop sinning we would not die. Because we sin we die [ Romans 6 vs 23, 7 ]
The dead [ except for those committing the unforgivable sin -Matthew 12 v 32; Hebrews 6 vs 4-6 ] go to hell.
Not some unbiblical hell of permanent torture, but to the Bible's temporary hell until resurrected out of hell.
So, it is not so much 'deserving' for what Adam did, but that we can not stop sinning no matter how hard we try.
The dead are buried, so to speak, in the Bible's hell as Jesus went to hell the day he died.- Acts 2 vs 27,31
Jesus taught sleep in death.- John 11 vs 11-14
Revelation 20 vs 13,14 mentions that all in the Bible's hell will be 'delivered up' out of biblical hell.
'Delivered up' as in meaning resurrected out of hell. Then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic' second death'
No one is left in the Bible's hell [ gravedom ] when biblical hell is cast empty into ' second death ' for vacated hell.

Why do today's 'churches' [ churches of Christendom ] teach a non-biblical religious-myth hell is because of tradition not Scripture. Non-biblical teachings became mixed with Scripture, and the clergy ignore Scripture in favor of tradition outside of Scripture but teach it as Scripture. That does not make Scripture as wrong, but makes clergy teachings as wrong.
Why teach a false permanent burning forever religious-myth hell is apparently because they want it that way ?
They apparently think the flock enjoys or wants to hear their enemies will be roasted in pain forever.
The flock apparently wants to have teachers to 'tickle their ears', so to speak, as to say what they want to hear.
- 2nd Timothy 4 v 3 mentions that the time will come [ it's here ] when they will Not endure sound doctrine, but after their own desires, they will have teachers for themselves in order to have their ' ears tickled ' [ itching ears to hear spoken what they want to hear ]. After all, isn't it the flock who pays the preachers salary ? He wouldn't want to loose his salary, so why not preach what the flock wants to hear ?
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Old 07-26-2013, 06:35 PM
 
45,582 posts, read 27,196,139 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
A real answer would be appreciated . . . since it is undeniable that they were primitive savages, filled with barbaric beliefs and superstitions and not very knowledgeable about reality (=ignorant).
My father/son response is part of my real answer.

I could give you the same verses, but you would reject it, or reason you way around it or whatever - just like we do over and over again. I have just realized that going over and over this stuff is not what Christianity is about.

You want the verses... here.

2 Peter 1:16-21 - For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, "This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased"-- 18 and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. 20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.


1 Corinthians 2:10-13 - For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, 13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

The Holy Spirit is responsible for the content working through those who wrote the content. And He is inside of believers today revealing the thoughts of God. He will not contradict Himself on the content He is responsible for. That's is just part of the Holy Spirit's character in being in union with God.

Yes, we are not dealing directly w/ original content. I believe God is in sovereign control to ensure the message carried down through the years is sufficient to fulfill the purpose of making disciples of Christ.

That's all you are going to get from me on that.


Do you care to answer the question about why a son trusts his father? You are the PhD - should not be difficult. It does lead to my answer.
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Old 07-26-2013, 07:55 PM
 
Location: New England
37,337 posts, read 28,299,599 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Feel free to cite whatever you think supports the claim . . . however it is worded. It does not exist in any shape form or word arrangement. It is ENTIRELY the "precepts and doctrines of men."A real answer would be appreciated . . . since it is undeniable that they were primitive savages, filled with barbaric beliefs and superstitions and not very knowledgeable about reality (=ignorant).
Mystic I love you so much.
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:07 PM
 
63,815 posts, read 40,099,995 times
Reputation: 7876
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Feel free to cite whatever you think supports the claim . . . however it is worded. It does not exist in any shape form or word arrangement. It is ENTIRELY the "precepts and doctrines of men."A real answer would be appreciated . . . since it is undeniable that they were primitive savages, filled with barbaric beliefs and superstitions and not very knowledgeable about reality (=ignorant).
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Mystic I love you so much.
The feeling is mutual, brother.
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:16 PM
 
Location: USA
17,161 posts, read 11,394,984 times
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Mystic I love you so much.
That's so funny ... I often have that exact, word-for-word, same reaction when I read Mystic's posts. Yours too, pcamps.
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:32 PM
 
Location: New England
37,337 posts, read 28,299,599 times
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Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
That's so funny ... I often have that exact, word-for-word, same reaction when I read Mystic's posts. Yours too, pcamps.
Mystic's posts have had a huge. Influence on me.
Never take me serious Pleroo, unless are I am saying Jesus Christ is who we are.
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