Thoughts on Hell

[Heartsong]

Originally Posted by SkylightMike231

Well, thanks for your input. But I was mainly asking those, or we rather who uphold this view. I'm really interested in the response on to why we deserve hell that is preached in so many churches today. It's one of my largest thoughts on hell.

To say that anyone deserves eternal suffering does not make sense to me. The only just reason for any punishment is to cause a person to learn righteousness and there is no way in which the common view of eternal literal torment/torture via fire can accomplish such a thing. The Law never brought about righteousness. The Spirit did which Spirit is Love and that Spirit of Love is gracious and long-suffering. His mercy endures forever. People are allowed to stay in the darkness until they get tired of walking in darkness. When they have had enough of the futility of walking in darkness, they will turn toward the Light. The Spirit and the Bride always say Come - the gates of heaven are open and never shut or locked.

[SkylightMike231]

Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4

Right, the broad way to 'destruction' No post-mortem consequences after: destruction.
Jesus gave the choice between life and perishing at John 3 v 16. Perish as in: destruction.
That is also the choice at 2nd Peter 3 v 9 repent or perish [ be destroyed ]
All wicked ones will be destroyed forever, not burning forever.- Psalm 92 v 7

The 'sinning body part' Matthew [ 5 v 22-29; 18 vs 8,9 ] is not advocating self-mutilation but stressing metaphorically being willing to cut out of one's life anything spiritually harmful. For example: eye can offend if watching porn. Kill off, so to speak, such bad deeds.- Romans 8 v 13.

Yes, tormented, Not tortured, forever. The torment for Satan is 'second death' according to Rev. 21 v 8.
Jesus destroys Satan according to Hebrews 2 v 14 B [ see also Romans 16 v 20; Genesis 3 v 15 ]
So, 'second death' is a fitting term for: destruction.
Satan was never in the Bible's hell and never will be. Satan does not gain everlasting life, but will end up in 'second death' [ destruction ]

Also, please note what the KJV Bible translates in English as everlasting fire and hell fire is from the word: Gehenna
In brief, Gehenna was a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed not kept burning forever.
So, Jesus' use of the word ' Gehenna ' would have been a fitting word for: destruction.

Gospel writer Luke wrote that after the death of the apostles religious lies would be taught to fleece the flock of God.
- Acts 20 vs 29,30. That is why people think of the biblical hell as a permanent torture place instead of the temporary grave. Jesus was temporarily in hell before God resurrected Jesus out of hell. Jesus now has the Keys to unlock hell.
[ Acts 2 vs 27,31,32; 3 v 15; 13 vs 30,37; Psalm 16 v 10; Rev. 1 v 18 ]
Jesus would have been in a sleep-like state. That is why Jesus taught sleep in death at John 11 vs 11-14.
Jesus was well educated in the Hebrew OT Scriptures that also teach sleep in death.
Such as: Psalms 6 v 5; 13 v 3; 115 v 17; 146 v 4; Daniel 12 vs 2,13; Ecclesiastes 9 vs 5,10

Hope the ^ above ^ reply is of some help for you.

Thank you very much for your reply. I would really like to agree with all of what you said, but the "tormented day and night forever and ever" from Revelations 20:10 really signifies that Satan will continue to be existing in some way even after his demise. And there are other instances in the New Testament that stress the eternal.

For example, when Jesus referred to the worm that dies not and the fire that is not quenched. If the wicked are vanquished for good, why would Jesus stress these eternal qualities if it wouldn't matter anyway in the end? I don't think He just said things just because.

Originally Posted by Heartsong

To say that anyone deserves eternal suffering does not make sense to me. The only just reason for any punishment is to cause a person to learn righteousness and there is no way in which the common view of eternal literal torment/torture via fire can accomplish such a thing. The Law never brought about righteousness. The Spirit did which Spirit is Love and that Spirit of Love is gracious and long-suffering. His mercy endures forever. People are allowed to stay in the darkness until they get tired of walking in darkness. When they have had enough of the futility of walking in darkness, they will turn toward the Light. The Spirit and the Bride always say Come - the gates of heaven are open and never shut or locked.

I don't know, but that is the general consensus in mainstream Christianity for a while now. They say that we are so wicked and reprobate that our just punishment is hell and that is a punishment too deserving (even nice) for wicked man.

I believe Paul Washer put it best when he said if you were to open the door to hell right now and call out to the people within that they can come out if they just proclaim Jesus Christ as Lord and kneel before Him, they would just laugh at you and slam the door back shut. That's how wicked we are.

So that's why I bring this question to all those who believe the above of which I stated on why we deserve such punishment. I really want to know if I'm missing something or other, because a lot of sermons and songs and people online (YouTube, forums, etc) say how we are wretched and undeserving of salvation. And I want to know why.

[Oleg Bach]

Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4

According to Revelation 20 vs 13,14 the Bible's definition of the Bible's lake of fire is: 'second death", not the sun.

This has always been of great interest to me- the "second death" - what is this second death. The only way to describe or understand this death - you first have to know what is the FIRST death? Prior your conception you must be dead for all intent and purpose. So I would assume that you are born and live out your life span then you die- which would be the second death.

With absolute faith and confidence in the mercy of God- the "second death will not hurt you" - Would that be because in the first death we were not aware of death because we were not brought into existence or consciousness? The fear of oblivion and the general horror of death that is in us all is the fear of the SECOND death - The promise is that this second death will be entered into in fearlessness and hope...in faith and in the hope (if you want it) of eternal life or consciousness.

Here is the glitch. A human being seeking eternal life must have one quality - ^That is the quality of having the will and need for eternal life. Some do not want more life...some seek the darkness of oblivion...In order toi attain life after this death - one must request it. Then there is the second resentment. The hard of heart may find it difficult to beg and human pride might overcome the want of more....In other words there is a natural resentment of God in some. I suspect that this resentment is strong in atheists who just do not want to - as they see it - beg at the feet of God.

Is there begging involved or is this a simple request- expecting mercy...It all gets down to GRACE. Looking at an old un-revised dictionary - the term grace is fascinating..."The undeserved mercy of God"........This statement makes it clear that God grants mercy to all that request it. In the end we all seek on thing as we near the terror of the end...That God be gentle and not frighten us fragile creatures.

[Pleroo]

Originally Posted by Oleg Bach

This has always been of great interest to me- the "second death" - what is this second death. The only way to describe or understand this death - you first have to know what is the FIRST death? Prior your conception you must be dead for all intent and purpose. So I would assume that you are born and live out your life span then you die- which would be the second death.

With absolute faith and confidence in the mercy of God- the "second death will not hurt you" - Would that be because in the first death we were not aware of death because we were not brought into existence or consciousness? The fear of oblivion and the general horror of death that is in us all is the fear of the SECOND death - The promise is that this second death will be entered into in fearlessness and hope...in faith and in the hope (if you want it) of eternal life or consciousness.

Here is the glitch. A human being seeking eternal life must have one quality - ^That is the quality of having the will and need for eternal life. Some do not want more life...some seek the darkness of oblivion...In order toi attain life after this death - one must request it. Then there is the second resentment. The hard of heart may find it difficult to beg and human pride might overcome the want of more....In other words there is a natural resentment of God in some. I suspect that this resentment is strong in atheists who just do not want to - as they see it - beg at the feet of God.

Is there begging involved or is this a simple request- expecting mercy...It all gets down to GRACE. Looking at an old un-revised dictionary - the term grace is fascinating..."The undeserved mercy of God"........This statement makes it clear that God grants mercy to all that request it. In the end we all seek on thing as we near the terror of the end...That God be gentle and not frighten us fragile creatures.

Interesting post, Oleg. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[Matthew 4:4]

Originally Posted by Oleg Bach

This has always been of great interest to me- the "second death" - what is this second death. The only way to describe or understand this death - you first have to know what is the FIRST death? Prior your conception you must be dead for all intent and purpose. So I would assume that you are born and live out your life span then you die- which would be the second death.
With absolute faith and confidence in the mercy of God- the "second death will not hurt you" - Would that be because in the first death we were not aware of death because we were not brought into existence or consciousness? The fear of oblivion and the general horror of death that is in us all is the fear of the SECOND death - The promise is that this second death will be entered into in fearlessness and hope...in faith and in the hope (if you want it) of eternal life or consciousness.
Here is the glitch. A human being seeking eternal life must have one quality - ^That is the quality of having the will and need for eternal life. Some do not want more life...some seek the darkness of oblivion...In order toi attain life after this death - one must request it. Then there is the second resentment. The hard of heart may find it difficult to beg and human pride might overcome the want of more....In other words there is a natural resentment of God in some. I suspect that this resentment is strong in atheists who just do not want to - as they see it - beg at the feet of God.
Is there begging involved or is this a simple request- expecting mercy...It all gets down to GRACE. Looking at an old un-revised dictionary - the term grace is fascinating..."The undeserved mercy of God"........This statement makes it clear that God grants mercy to all that request it. In the end we all seek on thing as we near the terror of the end...That God be gentle and not frighten us fragile creatures.

Good point to understand 'second death' and first we need to know what the Bible really teaches about death.
Jesus taught us that death is likened to sleep at John 11 vs 11-14
Jesus was well educated in the Hebrew OT Scriptures that also teach about death.
King Solomon, known for his God-given wisdom, wrote that the dead know nothing at Ecclesiastes 9 v 5
The Psalmist also wrote the dead are in a sleep-like state.- Psalms 6 v 5; 13 v 3; 115 v 17; 146 v 4
The prophet Daniel looked forward to being awakened out of death's sleep. - Daniel 12 vs 2,13.

Hebrews 2 v 14 B mentions that Jesus destroys Satan. [ Romans 16 v 20 ]
Revelation 21 v 8 shows Satan will end up in 'second death'.
So, 'second death' is a fitting term for: destruction.
All the wicked will be destroyed forever. - Psalm 92 v 7

'terror of the end' could be connected that the separated 'goats' at the coming ' time of separation ' of Matthew 25 vs 31,32 will be cut off going into everlasting punishment. 2nd Thess. 1 v 9 equates punishment with 'everlasting destruction'.
Jesus gave the choice between everlasting life or will 'perish' [ perish meaning destruction ] at John 3 v 16 B
2nd Peter 3 v 9 also mentions 'perish'. Repent or will 'perish' [ be destroyed ]
So, people alive at that time will either remain alive into the start of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth or will perish.
Perish or be destroyed in that symbolic 'second death' of having no further opportunity for life anywhere ever again.
They will end up like Adam who ' returned ' to the dust [ non-existence ] where he started - Genesis 3 v 19.