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Old 02-04-2014, 06:13 PM
 
45,582 posts, read 27,180,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Correct, no Faith, no salvation. No works---no Faith, just like Peter, James, John, and even Paul to a lesser degree taught--and most CERTAINLY what Jesus taught.

To believe as you easy-believers do, would mean that if God actually authored each and every book in the Bible, completely, word for word, then He certainly wasted a LOT of breath on works and following commandments, and didn't spend much time on faith ONLY at all.

I wonder which one He was more concerned with.
Question: Can unbelievers do good works?
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Old 02-04-2014, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Question: Can unbelievers do good works?
Good works come from the heart.
Or, if you will, the Spirit that dwells within.
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Old 02-04-2014, 06:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Good works come from the heart.
Or, if you will, the Spirit that dwells within.
Should at least be a yes or no in there somewhere... or were you just commenting?
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Old 02-04-2014, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Should at least be a yes or no in there somewhere... or were you just commenting?
I do not believe that those who profess to be Christian, hold the patent or exclusive rights?

... For what it's worth, faith is not inactive.
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Old 02-04-2014, 06:50 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,230 posts, read 26,447,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Nowhere, have I seen Warden state that salvation is by works alone?
But Faith and works are inseparable; and indistinguishable, one from another.

By FAITH the walls of Jericho fell down, AFTER they were encircled for seven days.
By FAITH the harlot Rahab, did not perish with those who did not believe; WHEN she had received the spies with peace.

WHAT more shall I say?

You cannot add works to faith for the Purpose of attaining eternal life. Works belong to the believer's spiritual life AFTER he has been saved by grace though faith. You cannot impose works as a requirement for salvation. Whether the claim is that you must add works to faith in order to be saved, or whether the claim is that if you don't have works then you don't faith and therefore aren't saved, it is making works a condition for eternal salvation. The first claim pushes works through the front door, while the second claim pushes works in through the back door.

Lack of good works after salvation does not mean that a person never trusted in Christ for his salvation. A carnal believer can not produce any works which are acceptable to God. And it is possible for a believer to remain in a perpetual state of carnality. If the believer does not acknowledge his sins to God as per 1 John 1:9 he remains carnal - under the control of his old sin nature. Be he is still eternally saved.
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Old 02-04-2014, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,357,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You cannot add works to faith for the Purpose of attaining eternal life. Works belong to the believer's spiritual life AFTER he has been saved by grace though faith. You cannot impose works as a requirement for salvation. Whether the claim is that you must add works to faith in order to be saved, or whether the claim is that if you don't have works then you don't faith and therefore aren't saved, it is making works a condition for eternal salvation. The first claim pushes works through the front door, while the second claim pushes works in through the back door.

Lack of good works after salvation does not mean that a person never trusted in Christ for his salvation. A carnal believer can not produce any works which are acceptable to God. And it is possible for a believer to remain in a perpetual state of carnality. If the believer does not acknowledge his sins to God as per 1 John 1:9 he remains carnal - under the control of his old sin nature. Be he is still eternally saved.
It's the Faithfulness of Christ that brings salvation; not that of your own.
However, your faith should be coupled with good works, if you have any.


"The Faith of Christ brought him to the foot of the cross; and love was his work upon it."
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Old 02-04-2014, 07:17 PM
 
10,036 posts, read 4,963,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Question: Can unbelievers do good works?
Anyone can do good works even neighborly good Samaritan works.

Christian works include ' spiritual works'. Cultivating a spiritual personality - Galatians 5 vs 22,23; Phil. 4 v8

Jesus commissioned doing the global ' spiritual work ' of Matthew 24 v 14; 28 vs 19,20; Acts 1 v 8

Also, please notice the sheep and the goats [ Matt. 25 vs 31,32, 40 ] are judged on the basis of how they have treated Jesus ' spiritual ' brothers of verse 40. They are the ' brothers ' of 1st Cor. 15 v 50.
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Old 02-04-2014, 07:21 PM
 
10,036 posts, read 4,963,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Good works come from the heart.
Or, if you will, the Spirit that dwells within.
According to Jeremiah 17 v 9 where do bad works come from ?________

And what does Matthew 15 vs 18,19 say ?_______
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Old 02-04-2014, 07:57 PM
 
45,582 posts, read 27,180,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
I do not believe that those who profess to be Christian, hold the patent or exclusive rights?

... For what it's worth, faith is not inactive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Anyone can do good works even neighborly good Samaritan works.

Christian works include ' spiritual works'. Cultivating a spiritual personality - Galatians 5 vs 22,23; Phil. 4 v8

Jesus commissioned doing the global ' spiritual work ' of Matthew 24 v 14; 28 vs 19,20; Acts 1 v 8

Also, please notice the sheep and the goats [ Matt. 25 vs 31,32, 40 ] are judged on the basis of how they have treated Jesus ' spiritual ' brothers of verse 40. They are the ' brothers ' of 1st Cor. 15 v 50.
So what are the difference between believers that do good works and unbelievers that do good works?

Matt 4:4 says the difference is on the basis of how the brethren of Christ are treated. So that means that one must have faith, good works, and treat the brothers of Christ properly in order to be saved?
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:11 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,230 posts, read 26,447,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
It's the Faithfulness of Christ that brings salvation; not that of your own.
However, your faith should be coupled with good works, if you have any.


"The Faith of Christ brought him to the foot of the cross; and love was his work upon it."
We have been over this before. To receive the free gift of eternal life, the believer must place his faith in the finished work of Christ on the Cross. This is clearly stated in the Bible. The work of Christ on the Cross made salvation possible, but unless you personally believe on Christ you remain under condemnation.

I am not going to waste my time going back and forth with you on this. The Bible is clear on this and you either accept as true what the Bible says, or you don't.
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