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I have been on this site for about a couple of weeks, and I have notice most people on this forum pretty much think they have it all figured out. The truth is the Bible, you can't twist scripture to fit what you believe. I don't feel I am accomplishing anything here, so I am going to preach the gospel else where, to ears that want to hear the gospel. I feel as christians that should be our job, and main focus. Don't get me wrong fellowship is important, because most people who are saying they are christians are lost. I can tell by reading alot of these post. I was shocked to see people not believing in Hell, saying Jesus has already came and will not come again, wow! These are elementary truths. I am an ordained minister and I am sent to the lost, to pull as many souls out of Hell as possible. So ask yourself, have I shared my faith today? Am I really a christian? Do I live what I preach about? Do I not believe in Hell because I am not living a godly life? I would like to say God Bless you all!!! I believe the pimp, prostitute, drug dealer, thief, and fornicator will listen and repent more that anyone of this forum. I believe there will be many surprises when the Lord returns, so study to show yourself approved. And remember, "It is appointed once for a man to die, and after that the judgement." May the Lord keep you, bless you, and reveal his self to you.
Hi Ministers, I hope that God blesses your minstry to reach many for Him but I would like to say that I feel that much of what you have inferred in your last post suggests that those who Christians who don't agree with you as far as some teachings are in fact not Christians. For example, you have suggested that some are twisting the scriptures. If someone doesn't see exactly as you see doesn't mean that they are twisting the scriptures to fit as they believe. It may mean that they have a different understanding and this for many reasons. You are also suggesting that most who say they are Christians who don't see exactly as you do on certain teachings are really lost when God is the judge as to who is lost and who is not lost. Only God knows all hearts. And you are suggesting that those who don't believe in hell (and I think you are referring to everlasting hell because most believers who have posted on this thread concerning hell have said that they do believe in hell or that people will experience hell) are in fact themselves not living a Godly life and are in need of repentance. These suggestions are your opinions and you have a right to your opinion but this does come across to me as being very self righteous. Take care and God bless you.
I am no longer young and during my lifetime I have studied many aspects of "after life." There are so many answers to this question. "Is there really a HELL?"
I strongly believe in reincarnation, for what good is a soul with only one lifetime to devine itself? Impossible to do, with all the learning we need to do and experiences we need to experience.
Think about life, for a moment, as we are living it today on this earth. Does it seem joyous, loving and kind? OR does it seem a constant turmoil of killing, greed, selifsness, and other evil acts? Perhaps this life is HELL and we need to live through this to learn valuable lessons so we can make our life better and learn how to reach devinity for our soul. Knowing, that as we learn and grow and no longer need to reincarmate, our life would be free and we could attain a higher calling for our soul, placing us in a world of comfort, beauty and all the things that we desire being within our reach, because we have earned these things.
So, could this life we are living be Hell? I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on this subject.
Our GOD is a loving GOD who loves all of us deeply and without malice. GOD and JESUS have no human qualities, such as hate and wrong doing. If this Divine Spirit is so loving, does it stand to reason that the reverse side would be one that desired seeing some of his children in eternal hell? I do not think that is the case.
There is so much to learn and reason out in this life, that we could spend an eternity trying to come up with answers to apease the questions we long for answers to, when all we need to know is: Have I learned to love his children on earth, who I can see, AND if I can't do this, than, how can I say I love GOD, whom I can't see.
Hi Ministers, I hope that God blesses your minstry to reach many for Him but I would like to say that I feel that much of what you have inferred in your last post suggests that those who Christians who don't agree with you as far as some teachings are in fact not Christians. For example, you have suggested that some are twisting the scriptures. If someone doesn't see exactly as you see doesn't mean that they are twisting the scriptures to fit as they believe. It may mean that they have a different understanding and this for many reasons. You are also suggesting that most who say they are Christians who don't see exactly as you do on certain teachings are really lost when God is the judge as to who is lost and who is not lost. Only God knows all hearts. And you are suggesting that those who don't believe in hell (and I think you are referring to everlasting hell because most believers who have posted on this thread concerning hell have said that they do believe in hell or that people will experience hell) are in fact themselves not living a Godly life and are in need of repentance. These suggestions are your opinions and you have a right to your opinion but this does come across to me as being very self righteous. Take care and God bless you.
hi Shana,
I agree with your post. This is really the shame of it and why a lot of people get turned off by christianity. Some christians come across as self righteous. They say they are not but their tone is..believe exactly like me or you are going to burn forever in hellfire. I believe their are absolute truths in the bible but some other things are just not quite as clear.We need to be very careful about saying who is going to hell etc. Remember the pharisees,they were so sure that had it right. That should be a lesson to us all. I implore people to research for themselves.Check out what people are saying don`t just accept something because that is what is taught by your preacher or what you learned in a seminary school. Don`t be afraid to research things for yourself.if you truly want to know the truth. Most people just blindly accept what they have been taught. Don`t take anyones word for it,including anyone on this site or your sunday school teacher.They..we.. could have it wrong. Check out some of the words in the original language,see if it was translated correctly. Just don`t blindly accept mans mistranslation. The title of this op was let`s discuss heaven and hell. But when some posters don`t believe as you do then forget it I`m leaving? A better title would have been... hell last forever and if you don`t believe that like I do then don`t respond to this post.
Hi Ministers, I hope that God blesses your minstry to reach many for Him but I would like to say that I feel that much of what you have inferred in your last post suggests that those who Christians who don't agree with you as far as some teachings are in fact not Christians. For example, you have suggested that some are twisting the scriptures. If someone doesn't see exactly as you see doesn't mean that they are twisting the scriptures to fit as they believe. It may mean that they have a different understanding and this for many reasons. You are also suggesting that most who say they are Christians who don't see exactly as you do on certain teachings are really lost when God is the judge as to who is lost and who is not lost. Only God knows all hearts. And you are suggesting that those who don't believe in hell (and I think you are referring to everlasting hell because most believers who have posted on this thread concerning hell have said that they do believe in hell or that people will experience hell) are in fact themselves not living a Godly life and are in need of repentance. These suggestions are your opinions and you have a right to your opinion but this does come across to me as being very self righteous. Take care and God bless you.
If you can read the bible and still not believe in hell, either you do not know how to read, or you are spiritually blind.
[quote=silversmith_3;2266085]I am no longer young and during my lifetime I have studied many aspects of "after life." There are so many answers to this question. "Is there really a HELL?"
I strongly believe in reincarnation, for what good is a soul with only one lifetime to devine itself? Impossible to do, with all the learning we need to do and experiences we need to experience.
Think about life, for a moment, as we are living it today on this earth. Does it seem joyous, loving and kind? OR does it seem a constant turmoil of killing, greed, selifsness, and other evil acts? Perhaps this life is HELL and we need to live through this to learn valuable lessons so we can make our life better and learn how to reach devinity for our soul. Knowing, that as we learn and grow and no longer need to reincarmate, our life would be free and we could attain a higher calling for our soul, placing us in a world of comfort, beauty and all the things that we desire being within our reach, because we have earned these things.
So, could this life we are living be Hell? I w ould appreciate hearing your thoughts on this subject.
Our GOD is a loving GOD who loves all of us deeply and without malice. GOD and JESUS have no human qualities, such as hate and wrong doing. If this Divine Spirit is so loving, does it stand to reason that the reverse side would be one that desired seeing some of his children in eternal hell? I do not think that is the case.
There is so much to learn and reason out in this life, that we could spend an eternity trying to come up with answers to apease the questions we long for answers to, when all we need to know is: Have I learned to love his children on earth, who I can see, AND if I can't do this, than, how can I say I love GOD, whom I can't see.[/quote
This is what wrong with this nation. Do you discipline your children when they do wrong? If your answer is "yes" then I say to you"Are you more spiritual and holy than God? "If your answer is "no" then I say to you "How do you plan on teaching your children right from wrong"? Read 1corinthians chapter 13 and you will see what love is. People create false versions of God to please their own flesh. God has always and will always be a God of justice. You spoke of love who could love more than one who caused their own Son to be born as there creation is to die for their creation? You cannot reject Christ, his word, his way, his sacrifice for you and still be pardoned.
If you choose the ways of the world you are choosing to suffer with satan. You cannot live like the world(chasing sin and everything the bible condemns) and expect to live in the kingdom of God. Many of us and many in generations past had and will have to die for the kingdom of God. Jesus said "If anyone comes to me and does not hate(translated our love for our families,friends,and this world should be like hate in comparison to our love for God.)his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters -yes even his own life-he cannot be my disciple." We must be "living sacrifices" giving up what the bible says "give up" for the glory of God. Faith in Jesus Christ transforms the willing persons life continually. No true Christian will remain a drug dealer, or pimp, prostitute, homosexual,lesbian, drunk,etc. If you are telling people you got saved years ago yet you still are consistent in these ways you still need to get saved. Yes you will have evil desires, yes past sins will come to mind, but if you are saved you will battle these things, not accept them. If you are gay, and preaching stop. You need to be preached to not preaching yourself. Torment is Gods just way of dealing with those who reject the easy way of believing God and following Christ.
I believe that the key to this entire argument lies in the unique, majestic and awesome character of God--especially His holiness. He is holy; we are not. Nothing unholy can enter His presence--nothing.
He is so much OTHER than we are that it is impossible for us to compare ourselves to Him. In fact, it is nothing short of blasphemous to do so. This issue of is there a hell or should there be a hell comes about from mere puny man bringing God down to his level in a futile attempt to try to package Him and understand Him. It is the exaltation of man that causes us to shutter at the total right and justice of a holy God to cast out from Himself anything defiled or unholy.
When we complain and shake our fists in the face of God Who always does that which is right and just and good and say "It is unfair for you to send people to Hell," are we not judging the Judge and calling unrighteous that which is total Righteousness? Are we not making of Him Who is total Goodness and Truth that which is somehow deficient and somehow false?
Paul nailed this entire argument in Romans 9--"What shall we say, then? Is there unrighteousness with God . . . . O man, who are you to reply against God?"
Our focus should not be on the mentally disabled, or the newborn child, or a deathbed conversion, but on the attributes of God through which we totally and wholly trust Him to do that which is good and right and just--and even loving. As A. W. Tozer so eloquently put it in his wonderful book, The Knowledge of the Holy, "All of God does all that God does." In other words, He never demonstrates His wrath apart from His love. He never exacts judgment without total justice. Even in His wrath and in His judgment He never relinquishes His characteristic goodness and love.
His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our throughts. He is beyond our ability to fully comprehend--that is what makes Him God--that is what places Him so far above us that makes even the consideration of His being so far above nonsensical and totally inadequate. It is because He is so "other" than we are that we can totally and completely trust Him!
If you can read the bible and still not believe in hell, either you do not know how to read, or you are spiritually blind.
Hi there, Ministers, I have also said that I believe that people will experience hell. I don't believe that the experience of hell is everlasting or eternal and I don't believe that this is supported in the scriptures. Your statement is your opinion. Many Christians disagree with you and might say the same of those who believe in eternal or everlasting hell. Take care and God bless.
Quote:
, "In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."
The number of schools in the early church that taught ultimate reconciliation is an embarrassment to many modern church historians. Therefore, they often do whatever they can to hide these facts. I mention again that these Christian Universalists who were clearly the majority of the early Church, believed that all mankind through Christ would be restored. They believed and taught and many laid down their lives for the belief that Jesus Christ was truly the Savior of the whole world
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 01-15-2008 at 02:41 PM..
I absolutely don't believe in hell. First of all, my mind and body could not take an eternity of pain so bad I couldn't feel it while alive (my mom's threats to me of what hell will be like). So it would be like someone chopping off my limbs with butcher knives while I was awake, only I'd never die and it would go on for eternity? I pass out if pain gets too bad, so I wouldn't feel it beyond the first 30 seconds. I find the whole concept insane and can't understand how thinking people can believe in such a fable. I see it as one of the main tools used by religion to control people - fear and threats.
According to some Christians, I can lead a moral life (I don't cheat, steal, etc.), help people my entire life and then go to hell and burn for eternity because I don't accept Jesus. But a useless leach who does little in life to help mankind or even helf his neighbor gets an eternity of bliss because he accepted Jesus. Makes no sense to me. Of course all Christians are going to hell, according ot other Christians. Is there any denomination that some other denomination doesn't think is going to hell?
As for heaven, I don't believe my mind is wired for eternal bliss either. I'd get bored eventually, cranky, and then not be so happy. My mind would have to be re-wired to the point I wasn't me anymore.
My mother believes that she will literally receive a mansion in heaven from God, and that her mother will be there with her. I'm not sure where she gets this, but she seems to believe that the more miserable she pretends to be on earth, the bigger her mansion will be.
I don't know what happens after I die. There's absolutely no way to know. My guess is that my brain shuts down, I stop thinking, and take an eternal nap. I love naps - they're like heaven for me
Heaven is at hand, it is within you.
Hell is as well.
There is no need to travel or die in order to experience either state.
Christ was in heaven while on earth. As He taught we can too.
"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man which is in heaven."
So my take on this, is that no one can ascend up to heaven unless we came down from heaven (which we all clearly did) even Jesus which is in heaven. The interesting part is that He said that while standing on earth. And not while in the traditional view of where heaven is.
Heaven is a state of being. Not just a place. Heaven means expansion, when we operate in heavenly ways we are participating in expanding God's kingdom of heaven.
freedom
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Hi Ministers, I hope that God blesses your minstry to reach many for Him but I would like to say that I feel that much of what you have inferred in your last post suggests that those who Christians who don't agree with you as far as some teachings are in fact not Christians. For example, you have suggested that some are twisting the scriptures. If someone doesn't see exactly as you see doesn't mean that they are twisting the scriptures to fit as they believe. It may mean that they have a different understanding and this for many reasons. You are also suggesting that most who say they are Christians who don't see exactly as you do on certain teachings are really lost when God is the judge as to who is lost and who is not lost. Only God knows all hearts. And you are suggesting that those who don't believe in hell (and I think you are referring to everlasting hell because most believers who have posted on this thread concerning hell have said that they do believe in hell or that people will experience hell) are in fact themselves not living a Godly life and are in need of repentance. These suggestions are your opinions and you have a right to your opinion but this does come across to me as being very self righteous. Take care and God bless you.
