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That may be the teaching of YOUR Lord . . . but that is NOT the teaching of Christ and our God who IS agape love. Did you ever even read 1 Cor 13??? God who IS that kind of agape love does not disassociate from ANY of His children, period. Only humans are so cruel and crass.
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Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx
Please explain the teachings of Christ in Matthew 18.
You are just confirming that you do not actually read the posts you respond to because I already answered you and pointed it out when you asked me a second time. I suspect you are just making rote knee-jerk responses using dogma to whoever you believe disagrees with you. If you had actually studied to show yourself approved instead of memorized your indoctrination to the "precepts and doctrines of men" . . . your understanding would be improved, brother.
I would treat them with love by combining compassion with Truth, and mercy with righteousness. I wouldnt condone or partake in their sin but would show them the truth which leads to freedom from the bondage of sin. In short: I would act as Christ did and show them love by not giving up on them.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
How would you do this after kicking them out of your church????
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Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx
Gee I hadn't thought of that. I don't how to communicate with people if I don't see them at church.
Seriously?
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Originally Posted by Pleroo
So, these people that you've disassociated, still seek your company?
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Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx
It was their choice to sin against God. Jesus was speaking of 'brothers' meaning those who are in the body. When they continue to live opposed to God and refuse to repent, Jesus says they are now consider lost and we should treat them differently. This is the teaching of our Lord.
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Originally Posted by Pleroo
So, they don't still have contact with you and seek your company?
For God so loved the world, Twin, for God so loved the world ... that while we were yet enemies, God reconciled us.
I'm sorry to constantly having to point out that stringing selective words while purposefully editing the balance does not go unnoticed nor will be ignored.
Half truths is not a substitute for the whole truth.
Jesus did not leave it just at for God so loved the world .
Jesus in totality said:
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.
But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
And again, a string of partial words taken out of context to formulate something contrary what the Spirit of Truth spoke is done for what purpose Pleroo ? .... could it be because you (like so many) ask a rhetorical question "saved from what? "
but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
You are just confirming that you do not actually read the posts you respond to because I already answered you and pointed it out when you asked me a second time. I suspect you are just making rote knee-jerk responses using dogma to whoever you believe disagrees with you. If you had actually studied to show yourself approved instead of memorized your indoctrination to the "precepts and doctrines of men" . . . your understanding would be improved, brother.
You liar. You did not explain anything. Jesus said specific words and sentences, explain them to mend they do not mean what they actually say. Get out your Rosetta Stone and tell us what Jesus actually meant? You can't, that's why you dodge the question time and time again.
Yep, pick and choose, and fill the empty holes with human emotion and reasoning. That's how new religions are born.
exactly .... string along a little from here and there while ignoring others and one has a very seductive but deadly venom,
which it's poster saying is
...........God is Love .... Agape love ....and that is all
....... and that is all I want to know ...................
I'm sorry to constantly having to point out that stringing selective words while purposefully editing the balance does not go unnoticed nor will be ignored.
Half truths is not a substitute for the whole truth.
Jesus did not leave it just at for God so loved the world .
Jesus in totality said:
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.
But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
And again, a string of partial words taken out of context to formulate something contrary what the Spirit of Truth spoke is done for what purpose Pleroo ? .... could it be because you (like so many) ask a rhetorical question "saved from what? "
but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
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And again, a string of partial words <snip> is done for what purpose Pleroo ?
For the purpose of explaining what I see in the bible that fits together like pieces of a puzzle, and magnifies what I believe holds everything together: God is LOVE.
The "condemned already" part of that passage has been discussed ad nauseum, so I know that you understand that you and I understand it very, very differently.
I don't think you and I have ever discussed the "wrath of God" passages, however. Now, hell-believers immediately equate "wrath of God" with eternal torment. But since I know that the concept of eternal torment is completely at odds with the overarching truth that GOD IS LOVE, I know that I can discount that possibility, right off the bat.
Putting it in the context of the overarching truth that GOD IS LOVE, helps. I think that the authors of the bible used the term "orge" of God because it best described their understanding of God's passion for our well-being. Love is like that -- passionate about the well-being of others. And I believe Rom. 1:8 sheds light, since according to that passage, God's "wrath" is against unrighteousness (whatever is out of harmony with love). That's because being out of harmony with love harms us all.
This isn't a great analogy, but I'll use it anyway ... If you're a little kid and you're holding a bottle of poison up to your lips on the verge of drinking it, and your mom sees you, what's she gonna do? Knock it out of your hand, in whatever way is necessary. The violent force that is used to get that bottle away from you might even cause pain for you.
Now, I don't think that God is actually going around knocking the sin out of people. But I do think that the spiritual principles that rule us because of the very nature of God (LOVE) who is the Foundation of our reality, act on us in such a way that it might feel like it. Love is so violently at odds with NON-love, that being caught in the cross-fire between them is going to be rough. So, by all means, get out of the cross-fire by believing that God is for you, not against you, and by abiding in God's love, and allowing it to rule you.
They argue that to tell a person living in unrepentant sin that he is a sinner is uncompassionate and unloving. This is like arguing that a physician is unloving because he tells a patient she has cancer.
Biblical Christians know that compassion requires telling the truth, and refusing to call sin something sinless. To hide or deny the sinfulness of sin is to lie, and there is no compassion in such a deadly deception.
True compassion demands speaking the truth in love.
You have asked me the same question about Matthew 18 several times and I answered . . . yet you accuse me of being a liar:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx
You liar. You did not explain anything. Jesus said specific words and sentences, explain them to mend they do not mean what they actually say. Get out your Rosetta Stone and tell us what Jesus actually meant? You can't, that's why you dodge the question time and time again.
::Sigh:: So now I am a liar. Did you not read this post in answer to your question on Matthew 18????
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
You mean this passage:
Matthew 18:15-17King James Version (KJV)
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
This refers to someone trespassing against YOU . . . not just generally sinning. It is how you should try to forgive and reconcile with your brother . . . NOT judge him or condemn him. In other words, it has nothing to do with minding someone else's business!!!Just ask yourself if God NEEDS US to ENFORCE His rules on others? We all stand before God as individuals. It is our individual choices that determine who we are and how we stand in God's eyes. WHY would God WANT or NEED us to enforce His rules on anybody else. We are responsible for OUR choices, period. We will answer for OUR choices and reap whatever we sow . . . but never more or less than what we sow. So what do you think? Is your version agape loving or not?
You ignored my questions and asked me if I agreed with your interpretation yet? I answered with this post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
I do not agree with what I THINK you want this passage to mean. I THINK you want this passage to mean you can judge, condemn and through the church chastise and abandon your brother for trespassing against you. Agape love and the Lord's prayer would say NO!
I tried to clarify the problem with your blind faith approach to scripture to no avail.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
I have already done so . . . but it seems to have had no effect or impact on your hardened heart.Except that you mistake the Bible for the word of God when Christ is the Living Word of God and He abides with us. You clearly do NOT believe that or you would trust the Comforter to lead you to the truth God has "written in our hearts" without worrying about what the words "written in ink" and stone say.
John 5:39-40 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
39 `Ye search the Writings, because ye think in them to have life age-during, and these are they that are testifying concerning Me;
40 and ye do not will to come unto Me, that ye may have life;
John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
1 John 2:27 (King James Version)
27But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
I have said what I mean mean multiple times . . . but since it is NOT what YOU mean you call me a liar or son of Satan and say I haven't answered. YOUR interpretation of the teaching is wrong, IMO. There is no agape love in your view and that makes it incompatible with God.
They argue that to tell a person living in unrepentant sin that he is a sinner is uncompassionate and unloving. This is like arguing that a physician is unloving because he tells a patient she has cancer.
Biblical Christians know that compassion requires telling the truth, and refusing to call sin something sinless. To hide or deny the sinfulness of sin is to lie, and there is no compassion in such a deadly deception.
True compassion demands speaking the truth in love.
"They" argue that it is the truth about the LOVE OF GOD that leads people to repentance, not Christians shaming them, disassociating them, or terrifying them with threats of eternal hell.
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But I do think that the spiritual principles that rule us because of the very nature of God (LOVE) who is the Foundation of our reality, act on us in such a way that it might feel like it. Love is so violently at odds with NON-love, that being caught in the cross-fire between them is going to be rough. So, by all means, get out of the cross-fire by believing that God is for you, not against you, and by abiding in God's love, and allowing it to rule you.
