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Doesn`t the bible say he was begotten.
Doesn`t it say he was FIRST BORN over all creation. I guess we can pick and choose which scripture we want to believe is true then give a church indoctrinated opinion about other plain scripture to make it fit what the church has taught us.
No my belief that Jesus is God comes from what the Bible teaches and what the Holy Spirit has taught me, not the church.
Well I believe Scripture, yet I know how the JWs have played with it. You always speak of Jesus being the first born as if he was a created being, yet somehow you forget to mention that in the same chapter it mentions that Jesus was the first born from the dead. And the reason you forget to mention that part, is because you want to foster the false belief that He was created by the Father. Jesus was the first born when he was raised from the dead, and to suggest that He was a created being is a departure from Gods Word. That belief comes from the teachings of men, but you cannot prove that belief by Scripture. The Father said He created all things (ALONE) and (BY HIMSELF). I agree with that. You say you agree with that, but then on a side note you will say, well, He really had Jesus helping Him. Which makes the Father a liar. If Jesus and the Father do not = One God, then there is no way the Fathers statement found in Exodus can be truthful. Either Jesus and the Father = One God, or the Father is not speaking the truth in Exodus. You cant have it both ways. Either the Father and Jesus = One God and together were involoved in creation, or they are seperate beings, and the Father was lieing when he said He made all things (ALONE) and (BY HIMSELF), when in reality, Jesus was really helping Him.
I already explained with scripture from the old testament that it says the LORD was the creator. Who does scripture say the LORD is? It says Jesus is LORD. You can try to add to or take away from that truth to make it fit what you have been taught by the church..but it doesn`t fit..no matter how hard you want it to. You can slice it,dice it,and splice it anyway you want..but I just believe what the scripture says.That` s the problem I have with the church. They tell you what to believe and they take scripture that totally contradicts their belief and spin it to make it sound plausable. Just believe what you are reading my friend..don`t try to add into it things that are not there to make it fit your church indoctrinated belief. The bible says the Lord created and it says Jesus is LORD. Who does the bible say is LORD?....JESUS..period! Now above you said they were both involved in creation..earlier you said only the Father was the creator. So I say to you...you can`t have it both ways! You seem to be contradicting yourself.I believe they were both involved just like shana. Show me the scripture that says the Father alone created all things by himself.... Not a scripture where you add to it your thoughts on what you think he meant or what the church tells you,you should believe. Let me ask you...who created you? Do you believe the scripture that says there is one LORD...JESUS. Do you believe the scripture that says there is one GOD ALMIGHTY...THE FATHER. Do you see that! ONE LORD..ONE GOD. Not one God who makes himself into three seperate beings. NOWHERE and I mean NOWHERE in all of Gods holy word does it say that. The church has you believing that. You have to infer your own opinion and spin to make it say that. Just believe plain scripture. Just read and believe..no need to beat around the bush to try and get at the truth...things such as well over here it says this..and over here it says that..and over in this verse it says that..so if you put it all together and spin it just right you have one supreme being but he shows up as 3 different beings....but I know the church teachings run deep and once you have been indoctrinated into that system it is so hard to get out of it. God has to open your eyes to the truth..not man. The bible says the LORD created all things. So if you don`t believe that Jesus was the creator then you my friend make God out to be liar. I`ll ask you again..who created you?
Why do you think God meant when He said do not take His name in vain?
?? It means not to take his name in vain. What did God say his name is in the old testament? When he was asked,did he say my name is God? When Moses asked him who should I say sent me..what did God say? Moses knew he was talking to a god. He wanted to know his name.
Doesn`t the bible say he was begotten.
Doesn`t it say he was FIRST BORN over all creation. I guess we can pick and choose which scripture we want to believe is true then give a church indoctrinated opinion about other plain scripture to make it fit what the church has taught us.
Ah...spm62, we've been around this block before! And you so know how I feel about all this hog wash your speaking about!
The problem with universalism is that the word of God comes to the believer by faith and the one who walks and believes universalism is walking in heresy so of course they can not see that the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit are ONE!
It takes the Holy Spirit to reveal this truth of God. (sorry God's rules, not man's)
Jesus says that those who abide in His word He would abide in them and reveal Himself to them.... that is why when a people who walk in false teaching can not see the truth of His word, so they come up with things that sound good but are not according to God's Truth... they make His word fit their own means (flesh).
Jesus is not going to reveal Himself to a people who do not believe who He says He is!! Because they don't believe!!!
Also God's word says that the natural man can not receive the things of the Spirit, they are foolish to Him, that is why one can not see that the, Three are One....
They are looking through the eyes of the natural man (flesh)....not through the eyes and guidance of the Holy Spirit. Who reveals all truth to those who believe....
The accuser of the brethren says or makes the excuse or accusation that one has been indoctrinated by the Church, which is a bunch of bologna.
Because only God can reveal the truth of His word to the heart that believes, no church, person, or anything can bring faith into ones heart!!!
Faith is gift from God given by His grace through Jesus Christ!!!
But I really care for you spm62.... and will continue to pray for you that the Holy Spirit will one day open and reveal the truth!! Because no one can do it for you but... HIM!!
The problem with universalism is that the word of God comes to the believer by faith and the one who walks and believes universalism is walking in heresy so of course they can not see that the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit are ONE!
What does Universalism have to do with this topic? Also, Curly, many believers who do not believe in the Trinity may believe that the teaching of the Trinity is false teaching and that those who may believe in the Trinity can not see the truth of God's word and may be coming up wit things that sound good but are not according to God's Truth, making His word fit their own means (flesh). Personally, I believe that God reveals as He desires and I don't condemn anyone who believes in the Trinity. They are still my brothers and sisters in Christ and I don't suggest or declare that they don't abide in God's Spirit or that God has not revealed Himself to them, because we may not see eye to eye on this. God bless.
What does Universalism have to do with this topic? Also, Curly, many believers who do not believe in the Trinity may believe that the teaching of the Trinity is false teaching and that those who may believe in the Trinity can not see the truth of God's word and may be coming up wit things that sound good but are not according to God's Truth, making His word fit their own means (flesh). Personally, I believe that God reveals as He desires and I don't condemn anyone who believes in the Trinity. They are still my brothers and sisters in Christ and I don't suggest or declare that they don't abide in God's Spirit or that God has not revealed Himself to them, because we may not see eye to eye on this. God bless.
Ah...spm62, we've been around this block before! And you so know how I feel about all this hog wash your speaking about!
The problem with universalism is that the word of God comes to the believer by faith and the one who walks and believes universalism is walking in heresy so of course they can not see that the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit are ONE!
It takes the Holy Spirit to reveal this truth of God. (sorry God's rules, not man's)
Jesus says that those who abide in His word He would abide in them and reveal Himself to them.... that is why when a people who walk in false teaching can not see the truth of His word, so they come up with things that sound good but are not according to God's Truth... they make His word fit their own means (flesh).
Jesus is not going to reveal Himself to a people who do not believe who He says He is!! Because they don't believe!!!
Also God's word says that the natural man can not receive the things of the Spirit, they are foolish to Him, that is why one can not see that the, Three are One....
They are looking through the eyes of the natural man (flesh)....not through the eyes and guidance of the Holy Spirit. Who reveals all truth to those who believe....
The accuser of the brethren says or makes the excuse or accusation that one has been indoctrinated by the Church, which is a bunch of bologna.
Because only God can reveal the truth of His word to the heart that believes, no church, person, or anything can bring faith into ones heart!!!
Faith is gift from God given by His grace through Jesus Christ!!!
But I really care for you spm62.... and will continue to pray for you that the Holy Spirit will one day open and reveal the truth!! Because no one can do it for you but... HIM!!
curly!
Our church has daily e-mail devotions. Today's was based on Matthew 9:3-8 where Jesus was accused of blaspheming. The religious leaders knew that only God has the right to forgive sins and by Jesus saying 'Your sins are forgiven,' Jesus was placing himself on the same level as God the Father. (which in the KJV, Jehovah was referred to by the spelling LORD, aka I AM)
Furthermore, miracles in the OT where done in the name of the LORD (KJV), Jesus never invoked the name when he preformed miracles, he simply commanded. The disicples used the name Jesus in preforming miracles not LORD.
Jesus' miracles were done to prove one thing...
The miracles done by the apostles (in the name of Jesus) proved one thing.....
Jesus = God
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