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1300+ posts on a "sin" that applies to 3-5% of the population, while the "sins" that are practiced by the majority are buried several pages down. (remarriage and adultery threads)
For instance, the STD example. Heterosexuals are not immune to STD's, so the argument fails there.
But, beyond that, isn't that kind of like saying that because heterosexual activity leads to people having abortions way more often than homosexual activity does , then heterosexuality is a sin?
It simply doesn't follow, in either case.
See, you are distorting the plain facts by trying to force fit a comparison with heterosexuals. The only way you can do a true comparison is if you have proof that heterosexuals are just as promiscuous and have an equal rate of STD transmission compared to homosexuals. But the numbers drastically point in the other direction:
Quote:
For example, gay and bisexual men account for over half of the 1.1 million people living with HIV in the U.S. and two thirds of all new HIV infections each year. In 2012, 75% of the reported syphilis cases were among men who have sex with men.
That's over half in a population that is less than 5%. That's an enormous difference over heterosexuals. From a purely logical perspective if you knew a specific activity leads to widespread disease then why would you want promote lifestyles that encourage this activity?
Even if you eliminate the STD factor, there are some recent studies showing gay, lesbian, bisexual ppl have more psychological distress, drink and smoke more.
Quote:
4. Many of
the associations between sexual
orientation and various health outcomes
found in this analysis are similar to
those found in past research. For
example, a higher percentage of women
aged 18–64 who identified as bisexual
had experienced serious psychological
distress compared with those who
identified as straight, which is similar to
findings in previous studies examining
differences in psychological distress by
sexual orientation (1,15). In this report,
a higher percentage of adults aged
18–64 who identified as gay or lesbian,
or bisexual had five or more drinks in
one day in the past year and were
current cigarette smokers compared with
adults aged 18–64 who identified as
straight, which is similar to previous
studies examining alcohol consumption
(5,16,17) and cigarette smoking (18–20)
by sexual orientation.
See, you are distorting the plain facts by trying to force fit a comparison with heterosexuals. The only way you can do a true comparison is if you have proof that heterosexuals are just as promiscuous and have an equal rate of STD transmission compared to homosexuals. But the numbers drastically point in the other direction:
That's over half in a population that is less than 5%. That's an enormous difference over heterosexuals.
And unwanted pregnancy and the resulting abortions (and children in foster care) are 100% a heterosexual-created problem. That doesn't make either orientation wrong in and of itself. It means that they way people use their sexuality can cause problems for them, and for society.
Quote:
Even if you eliminate the STD factor, there are some recent studies showing gay, lesbian, bisexual ppl have more psychological distress, drink and smoke more.
From a purely logical perspective if you knew a specific activity leads to widespread disease then why would you want promote lifestyles that encourage this activity?
I don't promote promiscuity. Promiscuity is the "lifestyle" that leads to widespread disease. Not homosexuality. Have you every considered what factors may have contributed to promiscuity in the homosexual community and tried to address that rather than calling homosexuality itself a sin? Does it occur to you that the treatment of homosexuals by society in the past has led to some unhealthy attitudes and behaviors by those who have been told time and again that they are disgusting and an abomination to God?
Why not tell them that they are fearfully and wonderfully made, just as they are, to assist in alleviating the psychological distress that religion has helped to cause? Why not help to promote monogamy through supporting the legalization of gay marriage?
Last edited by Pleroo; 12-09-2014 at 11:20 AM..
Reason: adding punctuation :P
I agree that homosexuality is a sin and God hates sin. All of us are sinners and imperfect without the grace provided by Christ's death on the cross. That isn't the issue.
The issue I believe is so grievous with homosexuality is that one cannot be right with God as long as they choose to practice homosexual acts. As followers of Jesus, I believe our hearts are changed and that we will desire to live as he did. How can someone be Christ-like and yet still choose to blatantly defy God by engaging in homosexual acts and homosexual marriage?
You could use the argument that we're all sinners and homosexuality is no different. Ok, you may think that and that's your decision. However, say a sin I struggle is lust. The way I sin is by watching porn and lusting after women who aren't my wife. As a Christian, I believe my goal should be to give up porn and lusting after other people. I can choose to do this and be right with God in my heart.
A homosexual who chooses to continue to live a gay lifestyle and defy God over and over this way is NOT trying to change themselves to grow closer to God. You could argue that one cannot simply just choose to be homosexual or not, and that may or may not be true, I don't know. However, one can absolutely choose whether or not to give into those urges or to resist them and pray to God for strength. A person could also abstain from any sexual activity, gay or straight, and live a Godly life in this way. No one is forcing you to continue to engage in homosexual sex or lifestyle but yourself and the sinful whispers of the world that hates God and all that is holy. I believe all things are possible through God who gives us strength, even abstaining from sins like homosexuality. We without question have a choice in this matter.
I also believe we should love all sinners, despite their sins and mistakes. This means I don't believe we should hate someone for committing sin, God is the judge of that. Yet, we should not pretend that engaging in sinful activities is OK and ignore it. A person must choose to follow Christ on their own - with the help of the Holy Spirit, that can't be forced. But turning a blind eye to sin in the name of love is not Godly and is a lie from the enemy.
I agree that homosexuality is a sin and God hates sin. All of us are sinners and imperfect without the grace provided by Christ's death on the cross. That isn't the issue.
The issue I believe is so grievous with homosexuality is that one cannot be right with God as long as they choose to practice homosexual acts. As followers of Jesus, I believe our hearts are changed and that we will desire to live as he did. How can someone be Christ-like and yet still choose to blatantly defy God by engaging in homosexual acts and homosexual marriage?
You could use the argument that we're all sinners and homosexuality is no different. Ok, you may think that and that's your decision. However, say a sin I struggle is lust. The way I sin is by watching porn and lusting after women who aren't my wife. As a Christian, I believe my goal should be to give up porn and lusting after other people. I can choose to do this and be right with God in my heart.
A homosexual who chooses to continue to live a gay lifestyle and defy God over and over this way, is NOT trying to change themselves to grow closer to God. You could argue that one cannot simply just choose to be homosexual or not, and that may or may not be true, I don't know. However, one can absolutely choose whether or not to give into those urges or to resist them and pray to God for strength. A person could also abstain from any sexual activity, gay or straight, and live a Godly life in this way. No one is forcing you to continue to engage in homosexual sex or lifestyle but yourself and the world. I believe all things are possible through God who gives us strength, even abstaining from sins like homosexuality. We without question have a choice in this matter.
Please, share with us what makes homosexuality a sin. What is unloving about someone being attracted to someone of the same gender?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx
Do I constantly remind homosexuals that they're going to Hell with a smug look on my face? No. More assumptions.
There is no reasonable justification to classify my beliefs, my words or my actions as hateful. Just the opposite, actually.
I think the issue is that if I actually conduct myself as I say that I do, you can't vilify me, ridicule me or otherwise berate or insult me and that just doesn't work for you. You simply cannot accept that someone believes differently than you but doesn't sin in the process.
Yes, I believe that homosexual acts are sin. No, I do not hate them, or tell them they are going to hell, and anything else ridiculous you would like to paint me with. We are all sinners, including me and my only desire is to see everyone in my life come to salvation and a closer, deeper walk with God.
If you define sin as something written 2-3000 years ago by a superstitious wandering desert tribe who tried to define their society, then where is your reason? Where is your thoughts? What about your own mind?
Why let those ancient myths and superstitions define how you think of other people today?
And unwanted pregnancy and the resulting abortions (and children in foster care) are 100% a heterosexual-created problem. That doesn't make either orientation wrong in and of itself. It means that they way people use their sexuality can cause problems for them, and for society.
The only thing you are accomplishing here is proving that disobeying God's laws on sex brings consequences.
If heterosexuals stuck to one partner for life in marriage, we would see much less of the social issues you present here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
I don't promote promiscuity. Promiscuity is the "lifestyle" that leads to widespread disease. Not homosexuality. Have you every considered what factors may have contributed to promiscuity in the homosexual community and tried to address that rather than calling homosexuality itself a sin? Does it occur to you that the treatment of homosexuals by society in the past has led to some unhealthy attitudes and behaviors by those who have been told time and again that they are disgusting and an abomination to God?
And the facts show that promiscuity is widely prevalent among homosexuals much more than heterosexuals even to where I would say it is a characteristic of a typical gay person. But now you want to push the blame onto Christians. What happened to personal accountability? They still have to choose to engage in those harmful activities. There are other outlets to release one's anxiety, pain or stress.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
Why not tell them that they are fearfully and wonderfully made, just as they are, to assist in alleviating the psychological distress that religion has helped to cause? Why not help to promote monogamy through supporting the legalization of gay marriage?
I believe they are wonderfully made as unique human beings. And that's how i strive to treat people. As equal human beings. The problem with promoting gay marriage is you are equally sending a message that homosexuality is completely normal. This message could encourage more people to adopt a gay lifestyle.
Please, share with us what makes homosexuality a sin. What is unloving about someone being attracted to someone of the same gender?
I personally believe that the Bible is God's word, and that word says plainly that homosexuality is a sin. One verse that I'm sure has come up in this discussion is in 1 Corinthians.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
If you define sin as something written 2-3000 years ago by a superstitious wandering desert tribe who tried to define their society, then where is your reason? Where is your thoughts? What about your own mind?
Why let those ancient myths and superstitions define how you think of other people today?
I don't follow men, I follow a God who is unchanging from the beginning of creation to today. I don't believe God is a myth.
The only thing you are accomplishing here is proving that disobeying God's laws on sex brings consequences. If heterosexuals stuck to one partner for life in marriage, we would see much less of the social issues you present here.
Uh, yeah. That was my point. It doesn't matter what your sexual orientation is, it's promiscuity that causes problems.
Quote:
And the facts show that promiscuity is widely prevalent among homosexuals much more than heterosexuals even to where I would say it is a characteristic of a typical gay person. But now you want to push the blame onto Christians. What happened to personal accountability? They still have to choose to engage in those harmful activities. There are other outlets to release one's anxiety, pain or stress.
Yes, Christians definitely should accept accountability for the role they have played in the past and continue to play in the problem.
Quote:
I believe they are wonderfully made as unique human beings. And that's how i strive to treat people. As equal human beings. The problem with promoting gay marriage is you are equally sending a message that homosexuality is completely normal. This message could encourage more people to adopt a gay lifestyle.
People don't choose to be gay. But I'll play along with you for the sake of argument and I'll ask again ... what is unloving about being attracted to someone of the same gender? And I'll answer the question, too, just to help move the conversation along ... NOTHING.
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, then heterosexuality is a sin? 