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No ward... You just won't come to the real light because your evil deeds will be reproved. Where there is no reproof there is no Holy Spirit. I speak the truth in love, you deny Him with your works...
The real Christians are standing up and reproving todays counterfeits. That would be you. Your words have betrayed you- 'he that denieth me denieth my Father that sent me'. Your words are fake and hollow, so I will not heed them. Scripture is as sound today as always and is the Sword of the Spirit:
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
When you decide not to use the word to reprove people and instead use some 'spirit' that doesn't even line up with Scripture, that's where I say 'no thank you'...
TC
Well thank you, Town Crier. I'm not sure which of my DEEDS you're talking about. Feeding the poor? Putting new tires and a windshield on a car of a neighbor I didn't even know so that he wouldn't be driving his five kids around in the snow? Doing all that on social security income. In other words, BELIEVING that Word you praise which has a helluva lot more to say about God's children providing ECONOMIC relief to the poor than it does about gays. And your DEEDS consist of telling some gay couple you don't want to serve them in your restaurant or clothing store or service shop? Wow, what a spirit you have--just not the Spirit of God. Christ died for me and didn't tell me I had to get "all better" before I could be His child. You are earning your way to salvation by condemning the people you should be loving.
I know your heart backwards and forwards, because it was the same ugly thing inside of me when I was misled by fundamentalist religion. You see past your own sin because you HIDE it with scripture. You need someone to be more evil than yourself because you have no confidence in God, just in a book. And the book is found wanting in more ways than one. Your god is stuck in your book. The only thing he ever revealed is in your book.
And you've never been able to comprehend the "but I say unto you's" that Jesus spoke.
I'm an old man, not far from seeing my Maker. While I have regrets about some things I've done in my life, I have no regret about discovering the inconsistencies in scripture (they are LEGION), nor in the contradictions between Paul and Jesus. It just takes study--scholarly study.
You however, make up stories or accept other stories ABOUT scripture which in your mind then become TRUE because you want them to be true. You give the same weight to them that you give to what the biblical authors wrote. You have to, otherwise the consistencies would jump off the page and into your lap. And, my man, you don't have the faith to handle it. You need that idol. And I'll prove it's an idol to you. Tomorrow morning, read your bible and then set your cup of coffee on it while you read the paper. You can do that with a book that POINTS to God, but you can't do it if it is your idol.
Interpret the world around you by the Bible if you wish. I choose to interpret it by the life of Christ and the Spirit of God in my heart.
The anti-Christ is alive and well, but it is not an individual. It is the fundamentalism that has crept into churches in the last 150 years--a modern cult of self-righteous individuals bent on destroying everyone else's life so they can get over their insecurities. Go back and read post #53. That's where your heart really is.
My friend hesitated. “Dan, you are the only friend I have that knows I’m gay. The only freaking one,” he said.
“What do you mean? I know you’ve told other friends.”
That’s when his voice cracked. He began crying.
“Every single person I’ve told has ditched me. They just disappear. They stop calling. They remove me on Facebook. They’re just gone,” he said. “They can’t handle knowing and being friends with a gay person.”
I didn’t know what to say. So I didn’t say anything.
“You don’t know what it’s like, man. You don’t know what it’s like to live here and be gay. You don’t know what it’s like to have freaking nobody. You don’t know what it’s like to have your own parents hate you and try and cover up your existence. I didn’t choose this. I didn’t want this. And I’m so tired of people hating me for it. I can’t take it anymore. I just can’t.”
How do you respond to that?
I wanted to tell him it was all in his head. I knew it wasn’t. I wanted to tell him it would get better and easier. The words would have been hollow and without conviction, and I knew it.
You see, I live in this community too. And I’ve heard the hate. I’ve heard the disgust. I’ve heard the disdain. I’ve heard the gossip. I’ve heard the distrust. I’ve heard the anger. I’ve heard it all, and I’ve heard it tucked and disguised neatly beneath a wrapper of self-righteousness and a blanket of “caring” or “religious” words. I’ve heard it more times than I care to number.
About gay people.
About people who dress differently.
About people who act differently.
About fat people.
About people with drug addictions.
About people who smoke.
About people with addictions to alcohol.
About people with eating disorders.
About people who fall away from their faiths.
About people who aren’t members of the dominant local religion.
About people who have non-traditional piercings.
About people who just look at you or me the wrong way.
I’ve heard it, and I’ve heard it over, and over, and over again.
So some of you are Christian--unless you meet someone who is gay.
Muslims, other than fundamentalist Muslims who come out of the same mold as Christian fundamentalists, can teach us something from THEIR holy writings--
Muhammad taught a couple interesting things as well. “First, a true Muslim is the one who does not defame or abuse others; but the truly righteous becomes a refuge for humankind, their lives and their properties.” Second, “Do you love your creator? Love your fellow-beings first.”
The greatest spiritual leaders in history have all preached love for others as the basis for all happiness, and never did they accompany such mandates with a list of unlovable actions or deeds. They never said, love everybody except for the gays. Love everybody except for the homeless. Love everybody except for the drug users. Love everybody except for the gang members, or those covered in ink, or the spouse abusers. They didn’t tell us it was okay to love everybody with the exception of the “trailer trash,” those living in poverty, or the illegal immigrants. They didn’t tell us it was okay to love everybody except for our ex-lovers, our lovers’ ex lovers, or our ex-lovers’ lovers.
Love others. Period.
So if this is the founding directive of all the major religions… why is it that sometimes the most “Christlike” people are they who have no religion at all?
Let me repeat that.
Why is it that sometimes the most Christlike people are they who have no religion at all?
I have known a lot of people in my life, and I can tell you this… Some of the ones who understood love better than anyone else were those who the rest of the world had long before measured as lost or gone. Some of the people who were able to look at the dirtiest, the poorest, the gays, the straights, the drug users, those in recovery, the basest of sinners, and those who were just… plain… different…
They were able to look at them all and only see strength. Beauty. Potential. Hope.
And if we boil it down, isn’t that what love actually is?
Go over to the atheist thread. There are threads where you can find some of the most loving responses to difficulties and problems people face that anyone could ever want. AREQUIPA, Shrina, even Mordant, and cupper3. I'd rather have a breakfast without prayer with any of them than sit and listen to bibliolators pound out their biblical knowledge without ever showing any kind of real love---for the unlovable. And that's why I know there are very few of them who have found Christ as Savior. We know them by what comes out of their mouths--and it's not love--its judgment and self righteousness and condemnation.
Heads up!! We don't have to entertain their sickness. We can rejoice in a God who loves our worst enemy as much as He does us. For if we've received grace and forgiveness from Him, we want to share it with others--no matter who they are, no matter their social class, no matter their gender, no matter their religion or lack of it, no matter their color, and no matter their sexual orientation.
And that's why I'm not gonna drive through Indiana on my way back east.
Last edited by Wardendresden; 04-01-2015 at 12:47 AM..
Well thank you, Town Crier. I'm not sure which of my DEEDS you're talking about. Feeding the poor? Putting new tires and a windshield on a car of a neighbor I didn't even know so that he wouldn't be driving his five kids around in the snow? Doing all that on social security income.
...........................Interpret the world around you by the Bible if you wish. I choose to interpret it by the life of Christ and the Spirit of God in my heart.
The anti-Christ is alive and well, but it is not an individual. It is the fundamentalism that has crept into churches in the last 150 years--a modern cult of self-righteous individuals bent on destroying everyone else's life so they can get over their insecurities. Go back and read post #53. That's where your heart really is.
I love you Wardendresden. You give me hope. Thank you.
I love you Wardendresden. You give me hope. Thank you.
The fundamentalists today are a far cry from those Aristides (The Apology of Aristides) wrote to his Emperor about
“It is the Christians, O Emperor, who have sought and found the truth, for they acknowledge God. They do not keep for themselves the goods entrusted to them. They do not covet what belongs to others. They show love to their neighbours. They do not do to another what they would not wish to have done to themselves. They speak gently to those who oppress them, and in this way they make them their friends. It has become their passion to do good to their enemies.
They live in the awareness of their smallness.
Every one of them who has anything gives ungrudgingly to the one who has nothing. If they see a travelling stranger, they bring him under their roof. They rejoice over him as over a real brother, for they do not call one another brothers after the flesh, but they know they are brothers in the Spirit and in God. If they hear that one of them is imprisoned or oppressed for the sake of Christ, they take care of all his needs. If possible they set him free. If anyone among them is poor or comes into want while they themselves have nothing to spare, they fast two or three days for him. In this way they can supply any poor man with the food he needs. This, O Emperor, is the rule of life of the Christians, and this is their manner of life.” – Aristides, 137 AD
Warden you have said so many wonderful insightful things you would think that the fundamentalists would be put to shame by the spirit they are of. But no, rather than put their rocks down and walk away, they want blood.
I am glad that God called me out of that system and belief that appears to be getting more vile as the days go by.
Well thank you, Town Crier. I'm not sure which of my DEEDS you're talking about. Feeding the poor? Putting new tires and a windshield on a car of a neighbor I didn't even know so that he wouldn't be driving his five kids around in the snow? Doing all that on social security income.
Warden...
Many will say unto me in that day... 'Have we not done many wonderful works in your name', and He will say unto them depart from me ye that work iniquity.
All of your 'works' mean nothing. if you haven't repented from a ravening and wicked lifestyle you are still going to be cast into the lake of fire...
Don't go boasting of all your good works Warden-go humble yourself before God and repent.
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Without true repentance- there is no salvation. And for you who call evil good and good evil-woe unto you.
If you love them, you will tell them that God is going to destroy them on the Day of Judgment along with those who have pleasure in those who do such things. If you love them you will invite them to your home for dinner and preach them the gospel rather than telling them its ok to do such things. If you loved them you would speak the truth to them. But you really don't love them, so you remain silent...
Warden you have said so many wonderful insightful things you would think that the fundamentalists would be put to shame by the spirit they are of. But no, rather than put their rocks down and walk away, they want blood.
I am glad that God called me out of that system and belief that appears to be getting more vile as the days go by.
PC... God didn't call you out of anything- He gave you a strong delusion that you would believe a lie, because you would not receive the truth.
It has nothing to do with carrying rocks. It has everything to do with telling them the gospel-ALL OF IT... Not just the candy coated stuff you guys are 'preaching'. Jesus loved them and said go and sin no more- lest a worse thing come to thee, and unless ye repent ye shall likewise perish.
By simply ignoring their ways and enabling them, you have become a partaker of their wickedness. If you love them, buy them a cup of coffee, and tell them that Jesus loves them, but unless they go reconcile to God they are going to perish... Do you love them enough to speak the truth to them, or will you stand by as they continue to be oppressed by the devil?
PC... God didn't call you out of anything- He gave you a strong delusion that you would believe a lie, because you would not receive the truth.
It has nothing to do with carrying rocks. It has everything to do with telling them the gospel-ALL OF IT... Not just the candy coated stuff you guys are 'preaching'. Jesus loved them and said go and sin no more- lest a worse thing come to thee, and unless ye repent ye shall likewise perish.
By simply ignoring their ways and enabling them, you have become a partaker of their wickedness. If you love them, buy them a cup of coffee, and tell them that Jesus loves them, but unless they go reconcile to God they are going to perish... Do you love them enough to speak the truth to them, or will you stand by as they continue to be oppressed by the devil?
TC
There is no one to change but self, what you do not realize and understand is what you are doing by judging and condemning others of that which you do not approve of, is judging and condemning what is alive and present in yourself.
Do you love them enough to see beyond what you do not approve of ?
Or despise you TC the riches of his goodness and forbearance and long-suffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance
There is no one to change but self, what you do not realize and understand is what you are doing by judging and condemning others of that which you do not approve of, is judging and condemning what is alive and present in yourself.
Do you love them enough to see beyond what you do not approve of ?
Or despise you TC the riches of his goodness and forbearance and long-suffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance
You see PC, you don't really understand the gospel.
1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
If you don't say anything to them, you are nothing more than a hypocrite...
PC, you are one of those that will show up at the gate having 'one talent' (which you did nothing with), and Jesus will take it from you and give to him who has ten- to him who who had compassion and did like the Samaritan and went and bound up their wounds and poured in oil and paid their bill. When you remain silent about someones spiritual condition, you are condemning them. If you love them, you will do do what it takes to heal them (even though it may not initially be pleasant for them).
You see PC, you don't really understand the gospel.
1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
If you don't say anything to them, you are nothing more than a hypocrite...
PC, you are one of those that will show up at the gate having 'one talent' (which you did nothing with), and Jesus will take it from you and give to him who has ten- to him who who had compassion and did like the Samaritan and went and bound up their wounds and poured in oil and paid their bill. When you remain silent about someones spiritual condition, you are condemning them. If you love them, you will do do what it takes to heal them (even though it may not initially be pleasant for them).
TC
You have no idea what the good samaritan did, if you believe you think you heal the beaten man on the wayside with judgement of what you do not approve of, you are the abuser not the healer. It is the goodness of God that leads a man to repentance, not judgement of what you do not approve, yes i understand that in the world of fundamentalism to bring judgement upon sin is the goodness of God. Thank God that he saved me from fundamentalism.
Like i said there is no to change but self, and if you find you are trying to change another, you are only trying to change what needs changing in yourself.
PC
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The story of a homosexual--a true story
