Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-26-2015, 06:31 PM
 
1,606 posts, read 1,262,320 times
Reputation: 668

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
There are those that love scripture and those that worship the bible, you are of the latter. Your posts make this perfectly clear.
I worship God. Period. I do not worship the Scripture but I believe the Scripture is the Word of God and is authoritative as if God were right here next to me. This is the exact same position as Jesus takes and I have proven that through His many teachings regarding the Scripture. You have yet to offer any Scripture that refutes this claim.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-26-2015, 06:32 PM
 
Location: US
32,533 posts, read 22,192,087 times
Reputation: 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
The fulfillment of the law has always been to love your neighbor as yourself, not to earn a right into heaven, but simply out of love.

Scripture says love does no harm to your neighbor, therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Now, the secret to doing this is having the love of God shed abroad in our hearts.
No...Fulfillment of the LAW means to interpret it correctly...To kill the LAW means to interpret it incorrectly...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-26-2015, 06:33 PM
 
Location: US
32,533 posts, read 22,192,087 times
Reputation: 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx View Post
This is completely false. The fulfillment of the Law that Christ was speaking of was the perfect sacrifice for sin. God is perfectly just and sin requires divine justice. Jesus paid the price for our sin. Yes, the motivation to send His Son was love, but the fulfillment was the final sacrifice that goats and rams and lambs could never acheive.
No...He was talking about interpreting it correctly...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-26-2015, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,998,604 times
Reputation: 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
No...Fulfillment of the LAW means to interpret it correctly...To kill the LAW means to interpret it incorrectly...
What you seem to miss is that what is needed is a recognition of the purpose of the Law, the Spirit as opposed to the letter. When the spirit or intent is understood and applied, the Law is fulfilled, and the purpose is always to promote and facilitate that conncern for the well-being of everyone in any situarion that is known as "love, or "agape." This is why those two commandments are the fulfillment of the Law.
People who insist on reading and applying things in the Old Testament are always concerned about judgement and control. an absolute misunderstanding of Law.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-26-2015, 06:45 PM
 
Location: US
32,533 posts, read 22,192,087 times
Reputation: 2229
A difficult passage for many Christians is Jesus' saying in Matthew 5:17 that he "came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it." A traditional way of interpreting it is to say that when Jesus "fulfilled the Law" he brought it to an end, even though in the next several verses, Jesus says quite forcefully that this isn't true. The key is that the phrase "fulfill the Law" is an idiom, and found several other places in the New Testament and in Jewish sayings from Jesus' time. By studying these passages we can understand the saying more fully. Moreover, we can read Paul's important writings about "fulfilling the law," and see what they mean for us.

"Fulfill the Law" as a Rabbinic Idiom
It will help us greatly to know that the phrase "fulfill the Torah" is a rabbinic idiom that is still in use even today. The word we read as "law" is torah in Hebrew, and its main sense is teaching, guidance and instruction, rather than legal regulation. It is God's instructions for living, and because of God's great authority, it demands obedience and therefore takes on the sense of "law." The Torah is often understood to mean the first five books of the Bible, but also refers to the Scriptures in general. In Jesus' time, and among Jews today, this is a very positive thing - that the God who made us would give us instructions for how to live.1 The rabbis made it their goal to understand these instructions fully and teach people how to live by it.
The translation of "to fulfill" is lekayem in Hebrew (le-KAI-yem), which means to uphold or establish, as well as to fulfill, complete or accomplish.2 David Bivin has pointed out that the phrase "fulfill the Law" is often used as an idiom to mean to properly interpret the Torah so that people can obey it as God really intends. The word "abolish" was likely either levatel, to nullify, or la'akor, to uproot, which meant to undermine the Torah by misinterpreting it. For example, the law against adultery could be interpreted as specifically against cheating on one's spouse, but not about pornography. When Jesus declared that lust also was a violation of the commandment, he was clarifying the true intent of that law, so in rabbinic parlance he was "fulfilling the Law." In contrast, if a pastor told his congregation that watching x-rated videos was fine, he would be "abolishing the Law" - causing them to not live as God wants them to live. Here are a couple examples of this usage from around Jesus' time: - What Does It Mean to "Fulfill the Law"?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-26-2015, 06:46 PM
 
Location: US
32,533 posts, read 22,192,087 times
Reputation: 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
What you seem to miss, is that what is needed is a recognition of the purpose of the Law, the Spirit as opposed to the letter. When the spirit or intent is understood and applied, the Law is fulfilled, and the purpose is always to promote and facilitate that conbcern for the well-being of everyone in any situarion that is known as "love, or "agape." This is why those two commandments are the fulfillment od the Law.
People who insist on reading and applying things in the Old Testament are always concerned about judgement and control. an absolute misunderstanding of Law.
Nate, what you seem to misunderstand is that we are dealing with a Hebraic Idiom...Which means to "Interpret Correctly"...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-26-2015, 06:46 PM
 
Location: New England
37,348 posts, read 28,463,121 times
Reputation: 2751
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
No...Fulfillment of the LAW means to interpret it correctly...To kill the LAW means to interpret it incorrectly...
I have no issue with that, for if you have understood the law correctly the proof that you have is you love your neighbor as yourself and fulfill it.

Where there is no revelation, people cast off restraint; but blessed is the one who heeds wisdom's instruction.

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

That's just pcamps quoting scripture like its going out of fashion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-26-2015, 06:48 PM
 
Location: US
32,533 posts, read 22,192,087 times
Reputation: 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I have no issue with that, for if you have understood the law correctly the proof that you have is you love your neighbor as yourself and fulfill it.

Where there is no revelation, people cast off restraint; but blessed is the one who heeds wisdom's instruction.

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
This is true....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-26-2015, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,998,604 times
Reputation: 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Nate, what you seem to misunderstand is that we are dealing with a Hebraic Idiom...Which means to "Interpret Correctly"...
I have no problem with that, and interpreting correctly is exactly what I have said.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-26-2015, 06:55 PM
 
Location: New England
37,348 posts, read 28,463,121 times
Reputation: 2751
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx View Post
I worship God. Period. I do not worship the Scripture but I believe the Scripture is the Word of God and is authoritative as if God were right here next to me. This is the exact same position as Jesus takes and I have proven that through His many teachings regarding the Scripture. You have yet to offer any Scripture that refutes this claim.
How is it you fail to see that the crux of the ministry of Jesus Christ lacks any old testament reference?. He did not quote the old testament scriptures how you have convinced yourself that he did. Refute what ? that the bible is the word of God?, that is easy, it is not, Jesus Christ according to the scriptures is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:11 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top