Old Testament and Christianity (Torah, verses, translation, Commandment)
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No, they are not living and breathing, you just think they are. It is quite evident throughout the gospels that Jesus Christ did not rely on the scriptures to convey what the Father had shown him, the beatitudes, the parables and sayings of which make up a big percentage of his teaching lack any scripture whatsoever.
This is not your argument. At least properly characterize my argument. The words of Christ are Scripture, along with the words of God in the Old Testament. I have shown ample proof of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Here are examples of Jesus Christ using scripture to either rebuke or correct fundamentalists who boasted they were scripturally right
"But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice.' For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance
"Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: 'These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.
Once again, you don't understand what Jesus is saying and you are actually proving yourself wrong.
You quote Matthew 15 but Jesus is rebuking the Pharisees and teachers for...
NOT FOLLOWING THE OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE
When Jesus says, 'the commandments of men', He is referring to the rules set up by the religious leaders, not the Word of God. Read the entire chapter. Not only is Jesus holding up the Old Testament as the Word of God, but He is rebuking the religious leaders for changing it to meet their own doctrine.
"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill." (Matt. 5:17)
The fulfillment of the law has always been to love your neighbor as yourself, not to earn a right into heaven, but simply out of love.
Scripture says love does no harm to your neighbor, therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Now, the secret to doing this is having the love of God shed abroad in our hearts.
The fulfillment of the law has always been to love your neighbor as yourself, not to earn a right into heaven, but simply out of love.
Scripture says love does no harm to your neighbor, therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Now, the secret to doing this is having the love of God shed abroad in our hearts.
This is completely false. The fulfillment of the Law that Christ was speaking of was the perfect sacrifice for sin. God is perfectly just and sin requires divine justice. Jesus paid the price for our sin. Yes, the motivation to send His Son was love, but the fulfillment was the final sacrifice that goats and rams and lambs could never acheive.
This is not your argument. At least properly characterize my argument. The words of Christ are Scripture, along with the words of God in the Old Testament. I have shown ample proof of this.
Once again, you don't understand what Jesus is saying and you are actually proving yourself wrong.
You quote Matthew 15 but Jesus is rebuking the Pharisees and teachers for...
NOT FOLLOWING THE OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE
When Jesus says, 'the commandments of men', He is referring to the rules set up by the religious leaders, not the Word of God. Read the entire chapter. Not only is Jesus holding up the Old Testament as the Word of God, but He is rebuking the religious leaders for changing it to meet their own doctrine.
My argument is Jesus Christ did not teach and quote the scriptures like you wrongly believe, like i have already pointed out to you, the beatitude, parables and sayings of Jesus which make up the best part of his teachings in the 4 gospels lack Old Testament reference.
Did i say the scriptures are not valid, did i say that Jesus Christ said they were not valid?, he used them like i have already pointed out to you, mostly to rebuke and correct fundamentalists, who so perverted the scriptures with their own understanding of them, they blinded themselves by them.
This is completely false. The fulfillment of the Law that Christ was speaking of was the perfect sacrifice for sin. God is perfectly just and sin requires divine justice. Jesus paid the price for our sin. Yes, the motivation to send His Son was love, but the fulfillment was the final sacrifice that goats and rams and lambs could never acheive.
This ^^^^^ is the vanity of worship Jesus referred to, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men, commandments that hold them in darkness.
My argument is Jesus Christ did not teach and quote the scriptures like you wrongly believe...
And that argument has been thoroughly and sufficiently refuted to the most extreme measure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Did i say the scriptures are not valid, did i say that Jesus Christ said they were not valid?, he used them like i have already pointed out to you, mostly to rebuke and correct fundamentalists, who so perverted the scriptures with their own understanding of them, they blinded themselves by them.
I will say it one more time. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees and the teachers for NOT FOLLOWING THE SCRIPTURE. How more clear can I be? What simpler words can I use? The Pharisees and teachers were rebuked by Christ because they created their own rules and did not follow the true, real Word of God found in the Old Testament.
There is just no point in beating this dead horse anymore. I have given my argument, presented the evidence given by Jesus and it is up to everyone else to see the truth.
And that argument has been thoroughly and sufficiently refuted to the most extreme measure.
I will say it one more time. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees and the teachers for NOT FOLLOWING THE SCRIPTURE. How more clear can I be? What simpler words can I use? The Pharisees and teachers were rebuked by Christ because they created their own rules and did not follow the true, real Word of God found in the Old Testament.
There is just no point in beating this dead horse anymore. I have given my argument, presented the evidence given by Jesus and it is up to everyone else to see the truth.
No it has not been refuted. You have given nothing but a defense of what you are seeing within the scripture that is not there. It is very simple, Jesus Christ did not quote Old testament scriptures how you claim and for the purpose you claim, most of his ministry lacked any scriptural references, why you do you refuse to see and accept this?.
There are those that love scripture and those that worship the bible, you are of the latter. Your posts make this perfectly clear.
Last edited by pcamps; 05-26-2015 at 06:24 PM..
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