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I would like to make a further point in this discussion, a discussion prompted by someone who simply cut and ran after his/her initial post! Why do people do this?
Anyway, my further point. Jimmy Swaggart and the leaders of many such Pentecostal ministries claim to speak in tongues. Swaggart in particular, would take his crusades to many Latin countries where he 'performed' in outdoor stadiums to humongous crowds of Spanish speaking people. Swaggart claimed the gift of tongues, even babbling away 'in tongues' on his TV programs at times simply to impress on others as to how 'holy' he was.
'Tongues' are supposedly given as a gift from the Holy Spirit to convey the gospel message to others in their native language. The Holy Spirit was 'the helper' Jesus spoke of that would assist the apostles spread the gospel message to all the earth. 'Tongues' were intended to edify others because they were hearing the gospel in a language they understood.
Yes, Swaggart claimed 'the gift of tongues'. It was presumably his task to spread the gospel message to all the earth. AND YET, Swaggart addressed his Spanish-speaking congregation in his native English but yet required the aid of a Latino-born linguist to interpret his every word for the congregation! What - precisely WAS the objective behind Swaggart's 'gift of tongues'? He freely and publicly babbled away on his TV show at times ...no so-called 'prayer language' here! Why didn't the Holy Spirit simply give Jimmy Swaggart 'the gift of Spanish'?
I would like to make a further point in this discussion, a discussion prompted by someone who simply cut and ran after his/her initial post! Why do people do this?
Anyway, my further point. Jimmy Swaggart and the leaders of many such Pentecostal ministries claim to speak in tongues. Swaggart in particular, would take his crusades to many Latin countries where he 'performed' in outdoor stadiums to humongous crowds of Spanish speaking people. Swaggart claimed the gift of tongues, even babbling away 'in tongues' on his TV programs at times simply to impress on others as to how 'holy' he was.
'Tongues' are supposedly given as a gift from the Holy Spirit to convey the gospel message to others in their native language. The Holy Spirit was 'the helper' Jesus spoke of that would assist the apostles spread the gospel message to all the earth. 'Tongues' were intended to edify others because they were hearing the gospel in a language they understood.
Yes, Swaggart claimed 'the gift of tongues'. It was presumably his task to spread the gospel message to all the earth. AND YET, Swaggart addressed his Spanish-speaking congregation in his native English but yet required the aid of a Latino-born linguist to interpret his every word for the congregation! What - precisely WAS the objective behind Swaggart's 'gift of tongues'? He freely and publicly babbled away on his TV show at times ...no so-called 'prayer language' here! Why didn't the Holy Spirit simply give Jimmy Swaggart 'the gift of Spanish'?
There is no point, Swaggart simply could not speak in tongues no more than I could. I spoke in tongues for 40 years because I was taught that it was a gift of God and it is needed that at least one gift of a supposed Holy spirit to prove itself and so you have people speaking in tongues as if it is a sign of the power of the Holy spirit when it is not. Nobody has the spirit of Pentecost anymore, they may have a spirit of God but it is not the helper that was sent on Pentecost and how on Earth could it be? The Pentecost spirit came to those who counted the omer and it was so important that they continued in this tradition that Jesus came and warned them to stay in prayer until the promise was received and then it was shared from hand to hand.
Gentiles began converting to Judaism and accepting a Jewish Passover lamb with the feasts of God but then they turned around and rejected everything the first disciples had accepted. Christians began killing the last Christians who were still keeping the Pentecost until all of them were killed off and there was no one left to spread the Holy spirit to, and it was already designed to come and then to leave, and so now we have a greater promise than those first disciples did. We are promised double what was given on Pentecost, we are promised double on Shemini Atzeret but how many Christians will do what those first disciples did in order to receive the promise?
We pray for the rain of Sukkot every year.
Imagine that this is the year and if this is not the year, it is not far away because it is promised to come at the end of 2000 years from where Jesus began his ministry. But imagine if you will, those first disciples receiving power and everyone around them wondering what had happened and how they were speaking in tongues and raising the dead simply because they counted the omer up to the promise.
Imagine that this is the year that the promise of spirit is given at Sukkot, and imagine the millions of people who are praying for the rain right now, and then imagine them receiving that powerful promised spirit.
Who will wake up the next day and say,'' HEY! HEY, WHAT IS HAPPENING? THER ARE PEOPLE WALKING AROUND LIKE GODS.''
Then it will be told to you that disciples had prayed for the promised rain and then received it and you will say,'' How can I receive this great power and you will run to one of them and think to get them to lay hands on you so that you also receive the promise and become like a demigod.
Then you will hear the answer,'' NO,'' I will not share, go sell all you own and I will tell you where to buy the oil and who knows, maybe there will be time{There will not}.
No Christians will have an excuse saying,'' Nobody told me about the promised spirit of Shemini Atzeret.''
That will not be an accepted excuse, you either follow Jesus or you don't.
There is no point, Swaggart simply could not speak in tongues no more than I could. I spoke in tongues for 40 years because I was taught that it was a gift of God and it is needed that at least one gift of a supposed Holy spirit to prove itself and so you have people speaking in tongues as if it is a sign of the power of the Holy spirit when it is not. Nobody has the spirit of Pentecost anymore, they may have a spirit of God but it is not the helper that was sent on Pentecost and how on Earth could it be? The Pentecost spirit came to those who counted the omer and it was so important that they continued in this tradition that Jesus came and warned them to stay in prayer until the promise was received and then it was shared from hand to hand.
Gentiles began converting to Judaism and accepting a Jewish Passover lamb with the feasts of God but then they turned around and rejected everything the first disciples had accepted. Christians began killing the last Christians who were still keeping the Pentecost until all of them were killed off and there was no one left to spread the Holy spirit to, and it was already designed to come and then to leave, and so now we have a greater promise than those first disciples did. We are promised double what was given on Pentecost, we are promised double on Shemini Atzeret but how many Christians will do what those first disciples did in order to receive the promise?
We pray for the rain of Sukkot every year.
Imagine that this is the year and if this is not the year, it is not far away because it is promised to come at the end of 2000 years from where Jesus began his ministry. But imagine if you will, those first disciples receiving power and everyone around them wondering what had happened and how they were speaking in tongues and raising the dead simply because they counted the omer up to the promise.
Imagine that this is the year that the promise of spirit is given at Sukkot, and imagine the millions of people who are praying for the rain right now, and then imagine them receiving that powerful promised spirit.
Who will wake up the next day and say,'' HEY! HEY, WHAT IS HAPPENING? THER ARE PEOPLE WALKING AROUND LIKE GODS.''
Then it will be told to you that disciples had prayed for the promised rain and then received it and you will say,'' How can I receive this great power and you will run to one of them and think to get them to lay hands on you so that you also receive the promise and become like a demigod.
Then you will hear the answer,'' NO,'' I will not share, go sell all you own and I will tell you where to buy the oil and who knows, maybe there will be time{There will not}.
No Christians will have an excuse saying,'' Nobody told me about the promised spirit of Shemini Atzeret.''
That will not be an accepted excuse, you either follow Jesus or you don't.
From the text in question ...there was apparently much disorderly conduct going on within the church environment. As a leader of the church it would be within Paul's right to call for order. Imagine many languages occurring in YOUR church at the same time. It would be a rabble. And, it would need to be kept in check ...one language at a time and an appropriate interpretation supplied. No interpretation available ...keep quiet. A church leader has the prerogative to make such a call.
Are you somehow taking us into the realms of the 'supernatural' when you speak of the Holy Spirit? Do you honestly believe that some supernatural entity is taking over your thoughts and your speech and your actions? Do you think that it's a good thing to be duped into believing that some unknown force - a force that you and yours have simply read about in a book - has taken you over?
What is this 'experience' you keep talking about? Euphoria? Ecstasy? Is it like a drug? Why is it necessary for one to have this 'supernatural' experience in order to be an effective Christian? Couldn't one be just as effective a Christian by simply being themselves ...no babble necessary? What are you trying to prove by flaunting your alleged infilling of the Holy Spirit? That you're among 'the chosen ones'?
When you discuss topics such as this with me you need to be on the ball. You're not talking to someone who is wet behind the ears on the subject.
1) Do you really think that people of any age didn't know enough to be quiet in their church??? It was about the operation of the gifts of the spirit, which he elaborated on in Corinthians. It was something NEW they had never experienced before, and as Peter told us in Acts, it was that which was prophesied by Joel, which obviously means it was NOT a naturally occurring phenomenon like a bunch of people getting together and talking too much in their native languages!
2) Absolutely. The Spirit of G-d is not some unknown force, btw. That is the whole point. It was prophesied and it happened, and it's called you being IN CHRIST, as opposed to Christ just being in you. There is a difference.
3) The experience of receiving the baptism in the Holy Ghost, obviously. I'm not trying to flaunt anything. And as I've said repeatedly, the gift is to all those who are called, even those who are afar off (weren't in Jerusalem at the time), even as many as the Lord our G-d shall call.
4) Then why is it I feel like I'm arguing with a kid?
Where is the message of sin and repentance the apostles preached? This guy is seriously deluded. Look at the message Peter gave the Jews after he made the lame man walk in the Name of Jesus Christ. He gave God the glory, and he convicted them of sin and told them to repent. That is what the gifts are for, miracles are for, to truly bring people to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ.. not this insane nonsense.
Acts 3:12-19 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus;whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all. And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
There is no point, Swaggart simply could not speak in tongues no more than I could. I spoke in tongues for 40 years because I was taught that it was a gift of God and it is needed that at least one gift of a supposed Holy spirit to prove itself and so you have people speaking in tongues as if it is a sign of the power of the Holy spirit when it is not. Nobody has the spirit of Pentecost anymore, they may have a spirit of God but it is not the helper that was sent on Pentecost and how on Earth could it be? The Pentecost spirit came to those who counted the omer and it was so important that they continued in this tradition that Jesus came and warned them to stay in prayer until the promise was received and then it was shared from hand to hand.
Gentiles began converting to Judaism and accepting a Jewish Passover lamb with the feasts of God but then they turned around and rejected everything the first disciples had accepted. Christians began killing the last Christians who were still keeping the Pentecost until all of them were killed off and there was no one left to spread the Holy spirit to, and it was already designed to come and then to leave, and so now we have a greater promise than those first disciples did. We are promised double what was given on Pentecost, we are promised double on Shemini Atzeret but how many Christians will do what those first disciples did in order to receive the promise?
We pray for the rain of Sukkot every year.
Imagine that this is the year and if this is not the year, it is not far away because it is promised to come at the end of 2000 years from where Jesus began his ministry. But imagine if you will, those first disciples receiving power and everyone around them wondering what had happened and how they were speaking in tongues and raising the dead simply because they counted the omer up to the promise.
Imagine that this is the year that the promise of spirit is given at Sukkot, and imagine the millions of people who are praying for the rain right now, and then imagine them receiving that powerful promised spirit.
Who will wake up the next day and say,'' HEY! HEY, WHAT IS HAPPENING? THER ARE PEOPLE WALKING AROUND LIKE GODS.''
Then it will be told to you that disciples had prayed for the promised rain and then received it and you will say,'' How can I receive this great power and you will run to one of them and think to get them to lay hands on you so that you also receive the promise and become like a demigod.
Then you will hear the answer,'' NO,'' I will not share, go sell all you own and I will tell you where to buy the oil and who knows, maybe there will be time{There will not}.
No Christians will have an excuse saying,'' Nobody told me about the promised spirit of Shemini Atzeret.''
That will not be an accepted excuse, you either follow Jesus or you don't.
Somebody says they have the Holy spirit today?
WHERE?
Tell me Hannibal.....do you believe that it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem? Because the SON IS a prophet, and just because the flesh died out, doesn't mean His Spirit did. And since Jesus is the baptizer, no one has to lay hands on you to receive it, HE can and does baptize in His Spirit without the arm of flesh just fine. Peace
Where is the message of sin and repentance the apostles preached? This guy is seriously deluded. Look at the message Peter gave the Jews after he made the lame man walk in the Name of Jesus Christ. He gave God the glory, and he convicted them of sin and told them to repent. That is what the gifts are for, miracles are for, to truly bring people to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ.. not this insane nonsense.
Acts 3:12-19 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus;whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all. And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
Clearly, he told what the purpose of that meeting was to be. It was not for the unsaved, but for the saved who needed deliverance, which, btw, doesn't come without the power gifts given by the baptism in the Holy Ghost. Strangely enough, the disciples were insane enough to be convinced of the Holy Ghost's ability to lead them, as the HG told them which man to select to replace Judas.
And the first thing the guy said was how if you ask the question of do any of you need deliverance in any American church today, they are going to get insulted, was also, right on the mark.
What I would be worried about if I were you is, since the Spirit is not divided, how is it you could be in agreement with Romulus over a major point in scripture? Peace
Tell me Hannibal.....do you believe that it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem? Because the SON IS a prophet, and just because the flesh died out, doesn't mean His Spirit did. And since Jesus is the baptizer, no one has to lay hands on you to receive it, HE can and does baptize in His Spirit without the arm of flesh just fine. Peace
I don't believe anyone has the Holy spirit given on Pentecost and this is for many reasons.
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