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Thank you. But I didn't hate math....I simply had no idea how it worked. I was in a school system that switched over to a ridiculous enterprise called New Math because the government was convinced the Soviets were going to clean our clocks academically. No one understood New Math. Including the teachers.
That is not unusual for math, Dew, even before the New Math boondoggle. Most of those, even those extremely proficient in using math, really don't understand it or the implications of it as indices of the composition of our reality. Most do not know who Godel was or they think he invented Google.
Here are 3 YouTube video clips. They're tongue-in-cheek (um, no pun intended) but also scripturally accurate. For those interested, they're each only a couple of minutes or so in length so they won't take up too much of your time.
Just listened to the first one, and he did a great job of butchering the understanding of Corinthians 14:2. The arguments never change, because they don't have it, and they don't understand it, so I've heard them all before.
Did you notice the part about SPEAKING MYSTERIES IN THE SPIRIT UNTO G-D? How exactly do you do that speaking a human language, pray tell? You CAN'T.
An unknown tongue, is one that's unknown to ALL men. If it were not, then someone would have to drag an interpreter in every time someone spoke in their native language, in a body where their native language was not spoken. I'm pretty sure Paul was not needed to explain that to the whole church. The lengths carnally minded people will go to in order to disobey and try to make of none effect the Spirit, is really staggering.
At least he got the title right, although it's not the way he meant it, I'm sure. Peace
Number 2 was even more ridiculous, and he added in an insult for all the female listeners, to boot, which is always a sure sign the man the hearing G-d, isn't it?. I especially liked the part where he said when that which is perfect is come, pertains to the perfect Bible. Peace
Watched number three. Once again, he twisted the scripture. Paul said he spoke with the tongues of angels which are spiritual beings. Spiritual beings speak through their spirit, obviously. And he said he thanked G-d he spoke in tongues more than ye all, and forbid not to speak in tongues. If tongues was a natural carnal human language, he just told everyone not to forbid anyone to speak. Does that really sound reasonable to anyone with half a brain? Geez.....Peace
Just listened to the first one, and he did a great job of butchering the understanding of Corinthians 14:2. The arguments never change, because they don't have it, and they don't understand it, so I've heard them all before.
There is no doubt in my mind that it's many of the Pentecostals (and ONLY the Pentecostals out of ANY other Christian denomination!) who have butchered Corinthians. They invented fake 'tongues' and so continue to bend over backwards to make the scriptures fit the invention.
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1
Did you notice the part about SPEAKING MYSTERIES IN THE SPIRIT UNTO G-D? How exactly do you do that speaking a human language, pray tell? You CAN'T.
This is Paul's style of speech when attempting to deal with a situation that was getting on top of him. One can almost feel his frustration. How one can read this text, suddenly burst into babble, and then defend this babble from that scripture defies logic.
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1
An unknown tongue, is one that's unknown to ALL men.
The word 'unknown' means plain and simply that 'the hearer' hears a language that is 'unknown' to them. There is no such thing as an 'unknown language'. Every language is known to someone. The whole point of Paul's tirade revolves around the different languages that were being spoken at one time in a church that was, apparently, in shambles to begin with. Much like many modern charismatic churches ...
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1
If it were not, then someone would have to drag an interpreter in every time someone spoke in their native language, in a body where their native language was not spoken.
This is PRECISELY what Paul instructed. No interpreter ...then shut up!
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1
I'm pretty sure Paul was not needed to explain that to the whole church.
But he DID need to explain this to the whole church!
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1
The lengths carnally minded people will go to in order to disobey and try to make of none effect the Spirit, is really staggering.
See, demeaning others is the result of what these so-called 'gifts' produce in people who believe that they are 'Spirit-filled'. Others not so 'gifted' are 'carnally minded' and 'disobedient' and 'trying to deny the Spirit'. All 'tongues' do is to 'puff up' (Paul's description) those who believe they have an infilling of the Holy Spirit. They exalt themselves above others not 'so gifted'. And, the silly thing is that NONE of this is scriptural ...it's all man made nonsense!!
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1
At least he got the title right, although it's not the way he meant it, I'm sure. Peace
I believe he got it right in the way he intended. Everything he has to say about the subject is biblically correct.
Number 2 was even more ridiculous, and he added in an insult for all the female listeners, to boot, which is always a sure sign the man the hearing G-d, isn't it?
Number 2 is only ridiculous to you because you claim 'tongues'. Obviously you're going to WANT to ridicule someone who exposes what you do as being false.* As far as the female 'insult', I'm sure that was simply a tongue-in-cheek bit of humor. Lighten up.
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1
I especially liked the part where he said when that which is perfect is come, pertains to the perfect Bible. Peace
No one knows what Paul means here. Not the guy in the video nor you. Whatever it means it offers no justification for some 'fake language'.
*I do realize that YOU might not believe 'prayer language' to be false. I'm sure that many 'tongue speakers' believe it to be the genuine article. This doesn't mean that it is.
Watched number three. Once again, he twisted the scripture. Paul said he spoke with the tongues of angels which are spiritual beings.
Nonsense. It was explained quite adequately in the video that Paul was using hyperbole when he spoke of 'the tongues of angels'. It really boggles the mind why it even needs to be explained as it's quite obvious that Paul is frustrated by all of the unruly stuff that is going on around him. Paul is basically saying that even the angels in heaven would lose their cool if they were here putting up with this crap!
Again, how anyone could read that text, suddenly burst into babble and then justify this babble by quoting that scripture defies logic.
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1
Spiritual beings speak through their spirit, obviously.
Oh, of course they do ...obviously.
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1
And he said he thanked G-d he spoke in tongues more than ye all ...
Paul was apparently a learned man ...he spoke in several languages. ????
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1
...and forbid not to speak in tongues.
And 'tongues' is just another word for 'languages' ...right? Why do you continue to make the word 'tongues' into something more than it is? Even if it did mean something other, would this somehow justify Pentecostal-style babble or a 'prayer language'?
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1
If tongues was a natural carnal human language, he just told everyone not to forbid anyone to speak.
You're reading more into the speech of a frustrated man than you probably should. Paul is not approving meaningless babble. If Paul were a visitor to a Pentecostal church that practices the ungodly crap that they are known for I feel sure that he would shake his head, turn around and walk out the door.
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1
.Does that really sound reasonable to anyone with half a brain? Geez.....Peace
Once again a typical demeaning remark of one that is supposedly 'gifted' by the Holy Spirit. "I" have the gift of 'angel speech' and you don't ...!"
Not going to answer this individually, because I don't have time right now, nor the inclination, but I will say this; the notion Paul had to tell the Corinthian church not to speak in their own native languages unless there was an interpreter present, is patently absurd. And you still haven't figured out a way to cut out all of Corinthians, because there are those pesky spiritual gifts besides tongues that you conveniently forget about. None of which work without the baptism in the Holy Ghost, since the HG does the works, we are told.
As I said before, discussion with you is like a dog chasing it's tale, because your only recourse is to deny, deny, deny and snip, snip, snip, what you haven't experienced and don't understand. Peace
Not going to answer this individually, because I don't have time right now, nor the inclination. but I will say this; the notion Paul had to tell the Corinthian church not to speak in their own native languages unless there was an interpreter present, is patently absurd.
From the text in question ...there was apparently much disorderly conduct going on within the church environment. As a leader of the church it would be within Paul's right to call for order. Imagine many languages occurring in YOUR church at the same time. It would be a rabble. And, it would need to be kept in check ...one language at a time and an appropriate interpretation supplied. No interpretation available ...keep quiet. A church leader has the prerogative to make such a call.
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1
And you still haven't figured out a way to cut out all of Corinthians, because there are those pesky spiritual gifts besides tongues that you conveniently forget about. None of which work without the baptism in the Holy Ghost, since the HG does the works, we are told.
Are you somehow taking us into the realms of the 'supernatural' when you speak of the Holy Spirit? Do you honestly believe that some supernatural entity is taking over your thoughts and your speech and your actions? Do you think that it's a good thing to be duped into believing that some unknown force - a force that you and yours have simply read about in a book - has taken you over?
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1
As I said before, discussion with you is like a dog chasing it's tale, because your only recourse is to deny, deny, deny and snip, snip, snip, what you haven't experienced and don't understand. Peace
What is this 'experience' you keep talking about? Euphoria? Ecstasy? Is it like a drug? Why is it necessary for one to have this 'supernatural' experience in order to be an effective Christian? Couldn't one be just as effective a Christian by simply being themselves ...no babble necessary? What are you trying to prove by flaunting your alleged infilling of the Holy Spirit? That you're among 'the chosen ones'?
When you discuss topics such as this with me you need to be on the ball. You're not talking to someone who is wet behind the ears on the subject.
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