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Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John".
you said the "GIVER" =GOD and the " receiver"= Not God
well the angel in Revelation 22:6 said, "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophetssent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done".
the Lord God of the holy prophets? so you said this must be "GOD" the giver. for the one you claim is not God the receive couldn't be the Lord "GOD" of the holy prophets.
so what you're saying is Jesus the Christ is the the receiver= Not God.
ok, while we are in Revelation chapter 22, just drop down to verse 16 and the bible will tell us who sent his angel. once you read that come back and explain if you don't agree.
PCY
Everyone on earth that actually knows God --knows 100%--everything Jesus does originated with the Father( John 5:30) -FIRST--Its only the Fathers will being accomplished-He does it through Jesus. The Father does it all. but through Jesus--do you understand that reality??
Everyone on earth that actually knows God --knows 100%--everything Jesus does originated with the Father( John 5:30) -FIRST--Its only the Fathers will being accomplished-He does it through Jesus. The Father does it all. but through Jesus--do you understand that reality??
First thanks for the response,
sad, and very bad excuse.
you said, the "receiver" = NOT God. scripture, Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth".
see how sad your excuse is. kjw47 no need to reply.
First thanks for the response,
sad, and very bad excuse.
you said, the "receiver" = NOT God. scripture, Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth".
see how sad your excuse is. kjw47 no need to reply.
Yes God did--He created a being ( direct first and last) Prov 8 tells you this-So does Coll 1:15--The firstborn of all creation---creation happened before the earth was--God created his master worker. The being Gods master worker speaks at Prov 8-It is the being who came to earth And was named Jesus as a mortal--0 doubt--it is not God speaking. Only the one whom God created all other things through is his master worker. At Prov 8 100% teaches with the pangs of a woman giving birth this being was created first-and last direct--Its Jesus--It is NOT God speaking.
Yes God did--He created a being ( direct first and last) Prov 8 tells you this-So does Coll 1:15--The firstborn of all creation---creation happened before the earth was--God created his master worker. The being Gods master worker speaks at Prov 8-It is the being who came to earth And was named Jesus as a mortal--0 doubt--it is not God speaking. Only the one whom God created all other things through is his master worker. At Prov 8 100% teaches with the pangs of a woman giving birth this being was created first-and last direct--Its Jesus--It is NOT God speaking.
GINOLJC, to all
@kjw47,
I know why you responded, you need answers to your life long questions. ….
You own words caught you. Just like the JW bible (NWT) exposes its own self. It has in Revelation 22:6 “Jehovah” as the Lord God who sent his angel. And the shocker came in verse 16 of the same chapter.
Now you want to know how that can be. You been taught the Lord Jesus is a created being, firstborn, God’s master worker.
All these traits are dead giveaways in your response. You been taught so long that Jesus is the angel Michael till you cannot accept the truth. Listen to yourself, “at Prov 8-It is the being who came to earth And was named Jesus as a mortal”.
There is ONLY ONE “being” and that’s God all else are “creations” or creatures of his. See how silly your statement is. A being? (still got that angel doctrine in your mind). I suggest you re-new your mind.
Now go and ask an elder to explain Revelation 1:1 to you as in who sent “his” angel. Tell them to read Rev 22:6 first and then 22:16.
The spirit of Ama and I had a conversation about the Trinity. This is how it went:
Aristeo Fernando: Ama, what is the meaning of Jesus Christ sitting at the right hand of God?
Ama: To His right.
Aristeo: Is that to His right?
Ama: Yes.
Aristeo: Aren't they only one? Jesus Christ, He is that God. Why will He say to His right?
Ama: Right. Right. Because there is God the Father.
Aristeo: Isn't God the Father, He is also Jesus Christ?
Ama: Good. That is right. But they were made into three: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. It is only one but they were made into three.
Aristeo: Ama, You are that God the Holy Spirit, aren't You? You are also Jesus whose spirit lived in the physical body of what we call Jesus Christ. Is that correct?
Ama: Good. For example, you, your child said "Daddy, please buy me a dress." Then your daughter said, "Daddy, please buy me a dress." You don't have sufficient money to buy for the two. You will ask yourself, who will you buy immediately? Who is that? Question. Isn't it that it is you yourself? Who did you ask? Isn't it that it is you yourself? Who said that it is that child you have to buy immediately? Isn't it that it is you yourself? Then you are three.
The one who decided is God the Father. The one who asked the question, God the Son. The Holy Spirit, who is it? That is the answer. You are three but you are only one.
I doubted the spirit of Ama for eleven years from 1983 to 1994. You may read by aboutface in 1994 in http://aristean.org/wp113.htm. And then five years later, in 1999 when I checked His revelations that Jesus was born on May 23 and died on August 17, I doubted Him again. I said to myself that if His revelations were wrong, I would renounce my faith in Him and declare Him to be a fraud. In 2003, I proved that His death is correct, and in 2006, I have proved that the birth is correct as well. And as 2 Corinthians 4: 13 states: "I believed, and therefore have I spoken".
The Trinity is not a mystery, nor is it made up. It is legitimate biblically (going back to Genesis), spiritually, and logically. Its meaning is merely veiled, ever so slightly. The Bible is exceedingly esoteric. People were into that back then.
For clarity, though, I'd discount the "three in one" aspect even if valid. Just concentrate on the three for now, and what each means. Most people have trouble with that. Trying to resolve any possible monotheistic perspective, either in a historical or theological context (contexts that are likely inseparable), before understanding the three is like trying to do calculus without first understanding algebra.
The Trinity is not a mystery, nor is it made up. It is legitimate biblically (going back to Genesis), spiritually, and logically. Its meaning is merely veiled, ever so slightly. The Bible is exceedingly esoteric. People were into that back then.
For clarity, though, I'd discount the "three in one" aspect even if valid. Just concentrate on the three for now, and what each means. Most people have trouble with that. Trying to resolve any possible monotheistic perspective, either in a historical or theological context (contexts that are likely inseparable), before understanding the three is like trying to do calculus without first understanding algebra.
that's an interesting reply. you said, "you discount the "three in one" aspect even if valid", but then said, "Just concentrate on the three for now".
an interesting opinion, but it don't agree with the bible. consider this, there is only one person, "THE HOLY SPIRIT". just consider that alone.
now consider this one Spirit, shared or diversified himself in flesh. how may do you have now? the answer two. this would address the number problem.
now the person vs title problem.
consider this, the Spirit holds the title "FATHER", and the same Spirit diversifed in Flesh hold the title "SON".
how many person do one have? ONE.
supportive scripture, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star".
the root is before David. if you will, explain how could JESUS be David Root.
that's an interesting reply. you said, "you discount the "three in one" aspect even if valid", but then said, "Just concentrate on the three for now".
an interesting opinion, but it don't agree with the bible.
I don't "discount" anything. I used that term carelessly because I was writing quickly. I wasn't as clear in my writing as I could have been. What I meant was: "set aside for now", for the purpose at arriving at a fuller understanding. It's advice for understanding the concept it total. Similar to how you teach addition before division. It breaks the lesson into steps.
Quote:
consider this, there is only one person, "THE HOLY SPIRIT". just consider that alone.
now consider this one Spirit, shared or diversified himself in flesh. how may do you have now? the answer two. this would address the number problem.
now the person vs title problem.
consider this, the Spirit holds the title "FATHER", and the same Spirit diversifed in Flesh hold the title "SON".
how many person do one have? ONE.
Whether there is truth in your proof or not, in my humble opinion it is almost unintelligible for someone who is trying to understand: like the OP. Hence, my prior advice that broke the understanding into steps.
Moreover, the spirit did not "diversity" into the Father. The Spirit is Gate, or a conduit, between Heaven and Earth. Between Man and God. Between Christ and the Father. The Spirit links Heaven and Earth, thus making them one. Though, I suppose one could make pedantic arguments about who diversified into what and when. I would hold that such an argument would have little practical value, but that's just my opinion aside from the necessity to acknowledge that the Spirit cannot follow the Son (per the Fillioque). The Son exists because of the Spirit.
Quote:
the root is before David. if you will, explain how could JESUS be David Root.
Christ is the root of David because he's a parallel figure to other early biblical figures in any true Royal lineage. He's the son of God, through the Virgin. The beginning of any Royal lineage. Though, I dislike using the Davidic line for illustration because I believe that it risks misunderstanding due to modern political baggage that is misunderstood, re: Judah. You could use any variety of prior figures, other than David, for clearer illustration that risks less noise in the conversation. That's just my preference for the discussion. Though, that doesn't discount David.
The Trinity is not a mystery, nor is it made up. It is legitimate biblically (going back to Genesis), spiritually, and logically. Its meaning is merely veiled, ever so slightly. The Bible is exceedingly esoteric. People were into that back then.
For clarity, though, I'd discount the "three in one" aspect even if valid. Just concentrate on the three for now, and what each means. Most people have trouble with that. Trying to resolve any possible monotheistic perspective, either in a historical or theological context (contexts that are likely inseparable), before understanding the three is like trying to do calculus without first understanding algebra.
In the Hebrew language--Elohim is NOT a name, And NEVER plural as Gods for the true living God-YHWH(Jehovah)
In the Hebrew language--The statement rendered-I am that I am = error in translation. I will be what I will be is correct.
A capitol G in the last line of John 1:1= error in translation--Jesus teaches-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--God does not have a God.
Giving worship to a mortal Jesus = Error in translation.
Catholicism translating is all that remained by the time others were allowed to translate---many errors to fit false council teachings such as the trinity. Not taught at the first council, it was added at another council.
The list goes on and on.
Moreover, the spirit did not "diversity" into the Father. The Spirit is Gate, or a conduit, between Heaven and Earth. Between Man and God. Between Christ and the Father. The Spirit links Heaven and Earth, thus making them one. Though, I suppose one could make pedantic arguments about who diversified into what and when. I would hold that such an argument would have little practical value, but that's just my opinion aside from the necessity to acknowledge that the Spirit cannot follow the Son (per the Fillioque). The Son exists because of the Spirit.
there is no argument as to diversity. diversity simply means "offspring", it's the Greek word
G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096
did you see how the KJV can translate the word "offspring" .... "Diversity". are you not the "offspring" of your parents?. that's in the natural. God is not Natural. and the TITLE for a offspring is "ADAM". did you see it? and ADAM can be translated as "ANOTHER".
understand, you me we, are all ADAM, or offspring of the ONE man. simply put "ANOTHER" of our parents. there's a Greek word for this another like us, it is G2087 heteros just the opposite of G243 allos.
see, we're G2087 heteros of our parents in the FLESH, but the Lord Jesus is G243 Allos of the Holy Spirt/God Spiritually. I just gave you the Godhead in a nut shell. just look up G243 allos, and G2087 heteros. my source is the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words. look under the word "ANOTHER".
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1
Christ is the root of David because he's a parallel figure to other early biblical figures in any true Royal lineage. He's the son of God, through the Virgin. The beginning of any Royal lineage. Though, I dislike using the Davidic line for illustration because I believe that it risks misunderstanding due to modern political baggage that is misunderstood, re: Judah. You could use any variety of prior figures, other than David, for clearer illustration that risks less noise in the conversation. That's just my preference for the discussion. Though, that doesn't discount David.
.
I must disagree with the parallel figure idea, because the bible is clear on the figure. scripture, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come".
the figure to come, not parallel in coming, but when come.
now ROOT means "before", so again how was Christ before David. I'll help you out, 1 Corinthians 10:4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ". see, Christ was Spirit before he was FLESH.
the Rock is the LORD, all caps. read Deuteronomy 32:1-5 especially verses 3 & 4.
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