1 Corinthians 15:1-8 - The Gospel That Saves (prophet, testament, Revelation)
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Jesus is the Savior of all men only in the sense that He died for all men (unlimited atonement), therefore making salvation available to all, but a reality only for those who place their faith in Christ. Salvation is not automatic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8
What do you think of those Bible verses that say even Faith is a gift of God? If a person does have Faith it's because God gave it to them and if they don't that was God's choice too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Actually, Ephesians 2:8 doesn't say that faith is a gift from God. …{correct explication}….
Now, 1 Corinthians 12:9 does tell of a temporary spiritual gift of faith, but this is not talking about faith in Christ for eternal life. What Paul is referring to here are temporary spiritual gifts which were provided at the beginning of the church-age. This temporary gift of faith was given during the apostolic period of the church to certain people who were already believers for the purpose of encouragement.
Neither of these are synonymous with the faith in Christ that a person must have in response to the gospel in order to receive the gift of eternal life.
This interpretation has its questionable elements, but the idea that faith in Christ is a gift of God is not indicated making L8's question moot.
Jesus is the Savior of all men only in the sense that He died for all men (unlimited atonement), therefore making salvation available to all, but a reality only for those who place their faith in Christ. Salvation is not automatic.
You remain under the misconception that salvation is an individual thing. It is not. It is a species failure that Jesus corrected and it, therefore, applies to everyone. Jesus did not come to save Mike555. He came to correct our human deficiency and save us all.
You remain under the misconception that salvation is an individual thing. It is not. It is a species failure that Jesus corrected and it, therefore, applies to everyone. Jesus did not come to save Mike555. He came to correct our human deficiency and save us all.
You continue to make up your own theology while ignoring what the Bible says. No one is automatically saved because of what Jesus did on the cross. Jesus died for the sins of the world but no one is saved until they personally place their faith in Christ Jesus.
Having reviewed, I find that I misunderstood Mike's objection and he is quite right. The passage is not saying that faith is a gift from God, but that salvation is.
My bad. The passage has been controversial, but need not be. Now I gotta review the question that was raised and why.
You continue to make up your own theology while ignoring what the Bible says. No one is automatically saved because of what Jesus did on the cross. Jesus died for the sins of the world but no one is saved until they personally place their faith in Christ Jesus.
According to your "precepts and doctrines of men."
The only evolution is in your constant spins. I have not changed a thing in my view of salvation and the only faith that is needed. There is NO condition required to be saved. Jesus saved us ALL, period. If you want to have faith just believe what Jesus said He did, have faith in that.
So, are you sticking with your earlier comment "we just need to have faith that we ARE saved", but you are deleting the word NEED, and making it optional?
I offered to delete it from the conversation earlier, but it seems impossible to please you.
So, are you sticking with your earlier comment "we just need to have faith that we ARE saved", but you are deleting the word NEED, and making it optional?
I offered to delete it from the conversation earlier, but it seems impossible to please you.
Your word games do not advance the understanding of God or Jesus and the love they have for us. I do not think your efforts please them at all.
True enough, but let's not stretch the analogy too far, the case here is one where consciousness is not in question.
ok how about incapable of grasping the life ring for whatever reason? In your analogy a drowning person would have to be thrown the life ring, see it, but refuse to grasp it. That makes no sense.
I quote your own words, so if you have trouble owning them, the fault is yours, not mine. Your attempts to turn it on me pleases no one.
It is the stumbling block you place in front of those who would come to God and know His love for us that displeases God. You demand they believe all manner of irrational and illogical things to be accepted by God. You block access to God's love.
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