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I assumed nothing. Do you actually have difficulty building a composite persona from a narrative? Seriously?
Not at all!
Let's go back to the OP: Is this part of the composite of your Jesus?
Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, then you will stand outside and start to knock on the door and beg him, ‘Lord, let us in!’ But he will answer you, ‘I don’t know where you come from.’ Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ But he will reply, ‘I don’t know where you come from! Go away from me, all you evildoers!’ There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves thrown out.
How about this?:
Do not be amazed at this, because a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and will come out – the ones who have done what is good to the resurrection resulting in life, and the ones who have done what is evil to the resurrection resulting in condemnation.
Feeling is useless in this case! Let's see how do we come to know whose feelings are right? I feel you are wrong now - does that make me right? Why are you right, how do you know? Oh yeah your feeling nothing but feelings. This is the problem with religion and shoddy texts of ambiguity coupled with ignorance.
Look you don't have to believe the scriptures - why are defending them with a universalist interpretation? Just use your feelings. Why did you even need a book to tell you that Jesus existed?
I think i clearly showed that biased belief, a strong unwavering leaning towards how someone feels about something can cause you to reject a methodical explanation, do a methodical breakdown on what the scriptures says we are saved from with a fundamentalist and even though you will prove it is not eternal hell, they will still maintain that it is .This kind of thing is happening on this forum on a daily basis. I actually believe you are showing that same bias in your methodology towards the universalists on here, so much so you are a hero to at least one fundy one here whose methodolgy still has him believing believing he's saved from hell), which is something i never ever thought i would see and hear on this forum, i never witnessed anything cordial from them to you guys.
I must be having a deep impact on your psyche for you to be trying to pray away the facts presented to you. Keep it up your fundie shield should hold!
Little did Rose know how much we at City-Data are honoured/honored to have a resident scholar with us,
Grand Poobah Skilled Exegesis University For Advanced Studies
Please Poobah, admit poor "clueless" Rose to your exhaustive (exhausting) University.
"Grace is the celebration of life, relentlessly hounding all the non-celebrants in the world. It is a floating, cosmic bash shouting its way through the streets of the universe, flinging the sweetness of its cassations to every window, pounding at every door in a hilarity beyond all liking and happening, until the prodigals come out at last and dance, and the elder brothers finally take their fingers out of their ears." -Robert Farrar Capon
Let's go back to the OP: Is this part of the composite of your Jesus?
Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, then you will stand outside and start to knock on the door and beg him, ‘Lord, let us in!’ But he will answer you, ‘I don’t know where you come from.’ Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ But he will reply, ‘I don’t know where you come from! Go away from me, all you evildoers!’ There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves thrown out.
How about this?:
Do not be amazed at this, because a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and will come out – the ones who have done what is good to the resurrection resulting in life, and the ones who have done what is evil to the resurrection resulting in condemnation.
I asked you about the persona of Jesus, NOT the myriad conflicting things attributed to Him. When you read a narrative building a persona you come to an understanding of the underlying character of the persona. That is how you parse the myriad things attributed to Him and separate out the inconsistencies. You apparently are too focused on exploiting the inconsistencies in order to debunk the entire narrative.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 06-01-2018 at 06:25 AM..
Titus 3
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
In regard to universalism it does not matter of the other 'brands' because no brand other than universalism teaches that all will be saved. Calvinism and Arminianism and their brands do not have all being saved. Of course what is happening in the Catholic Church these days who knows - they change every which way the wind blows nowadays.
Even when I was Christian and I started to study the languages of the Bible and Linguistics my views changed eventually leading me to abandon the faith all together. Obviously the moment when I left is not the same as when I believed. But much subsequent study has only confirmed that choice and understanding.
Just curious(now I'm really curious..is it an embarrassing one). I ultimately objected morally to the brand I was in. Regardless of what the Bible says or didn't say I couldn't go along with what religion was teaching. I had to listen to that inner voice when it tells me something is wrong. I can't go against my conscience without major repercussions to my mental well being no matter the authority put before me.
This is my personal observation from interacting here for the last couple of years. Some people are using the Bible as the literal word of God and God is contained therein. They search the letter of the law. Some people are using it as testimony and a learning aid to find God within/without. They search the spirit of the law.
Here is a good read on the story of Lucifer, his origin, his history, his status.
snip of this article:
What kind of iniquity was found of him (Satan, Lucifer)? In the book of Ezekiel, God has let us stand with Him at the very beginning, to see the origin and the creation of Satan. But, why does God say this? What is this iniquity? We must look back to Isaiah 14:12, which tells us of Lucifer/Satan's choice. "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon; I will ascend to the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High." Did you notice in this passage all of the "I wills. " He said he would exalt his throne above the stars of God. The word "stars" here does not refer to what we see in the night sky. It refers to the angels of God. In other words, "I will take over heaven, I will be God." That is Lucifer/Satan's sin and that is the iniquity that was found in him. He does not want to be God's servant. He does not want to do what he was created to do. He wants to be served and there are millions who have chosen to do just that; serve him. They have listened to his lies and chosen to follow him. Eve believed the lie that she would be like God. The reason Lucifer/Satan tempted her with that was because it is the very thing that he wants -- to be God.
What makes you believe that the fundamentalists (including yourself) have it 100% correct, when word meaning has been changed over the centuries? Hell, you can research any dictionary and see that for yourself.
"Lets just add-another definition and expand the original meaning of the word?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1
100% not! Probably yes, because I have studied Greek and Linguistics for this very reason - hearing preachers contradict themselves citing 'Greek.'
I give you good contextual, grammatical, linguistic reasons why. I do not just say well God or the text would not say that - blah blah blah - because it does not feel right with me.
And I know how to evaluate such principles of language. There are exegetical principles that one can follow in order to reduce errors. Jeez, this aint hard if you have been around these issue on a level other than grabbing your Strong's Concordance and posting a quote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
Yet you cannot see that the action in 1 Timothy 2:4 is indicative. Nowhere is it subjunctive, or that of being contingent or probable, nor imperative on the subject’s response. Neither is it Optative, as in being unlikely or wishful thinking that mankind might come to this salvation and knowledge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1
Do you even know what you are talking about? I suggest you read 'Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics.'
You do realize that there are 6 different nuances to the indicative mood?
'The verbal action or state with reference to its actuality or potentiality'
Potential Indicative: Sematically equivalent to a potential mood, due to the verbal root; found in verbs of obligation, wish, or desire followed by infinitive.
Do you know what follows in the Greek - you guessed it an infinitive.
I don't have time to teach someone as stubborn and raw as yourself - unless you want to pay me
See things are not as cut and dry as your so-called sources want you to believe or because you are not up to speed on these matters. Not that you give a rats you know what - just stick with you feelings. It must be nice to ignore so much simple context and these linguistic nuances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
Perhaps, you should quit ignoring them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1
I'm not I'm demonstrating them!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1
Again: does it look like I'm ignoring them?
Do you even know what you are talking about? I suggest you read 'Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics.'
You do realize that there are 6 different nuances to the indicative mood?
'The verbal action or state with reference to its actuality or potentiality'
Potential Indicative: Sematically equivalent to a potential mood, due to the verbal root; found in verbs of obligation, wish, or desire followed by infinitive.
Do you know what follows in the Greek - you guessed it an infinitive.
I don't have time to teach someone as stubborn and raw as yourself - unless you want to pay me
See things are not as cut and dry as your so-called sources want you to believe or because you are not up to speed on these matters. Not that you give a rats you know what - just stick with you feelings. It must be nice to ignore so much simple context and these linguistic nuances.
I am not impressed at all with your pretentiousness or your feelings about others.
And exalting yourself to the position of thinking you could be my teacher is laughable.
Here is a good read on the story of Lucifer, his origin, his history, his status.
snip of this article:
What kind of iniquity was found of him (Satan, Lucifer)? In the book of Ezekiel, God has let us stand with Him at the very beginning, to see the origin and the creation of Satan. But, why does God say this? What is this iniquity? We must look back to Isaiah 14:12, which tells us of Lucifer/Satan's choice. "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon; I will ascend to the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High." Did you notice in this passage all of the "I wills. " He said he would exalt his throne above the stars of God. The word "stars" here does not refer to what we see in the night sky. It refers to the angels of God. In other words, "I will take over heaven, I will be God." That is Lucifer/Satan's sin and that is the iniquity that was found in him. He does not want to be God's servant. He does not want to do what he was created to do. He wants to be served and there are millions who have chosen to do just that; serve him. They have listened to his lies and chosen to follow him. Eve believed the lie that she would be like God. The reason Lucifer/Satan tempted her with that was because it is the very thing that he wants -- to be God.
There is no doubt that both Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 refer to earthly human beings. Isaiah refers to the King of Babylon, while Ezekiel is a reference to the ruler of Tyre. They are not about a separate entity called Satan, but people will twist whatever they can to meet or support their beliefs in a mythological creature that influences humanity. It's the other God of Christianism and they have to support its existence, otherwise much of what they believe will come crumbling down around them.
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It must be nice to ignore so much simple context and these linguistic nuances.
